Yes 店 can mean 'establishment' not just 'store' so it can be used for bars and restaurants as well.
ほど always refers to an extent. So the difference between this sentence with or without ほど is:
店へ来る男 men who come to this establishment
店へ来るほどの男 men of the extent/type that come to this establishment
Although it's not completely the same, you could create a similar effect by saying something like 店へ来るような男. The implications of ほどの and ような are slightly different, but perhaps this makes the grammar more understandable.
Hi Bunsuke, I thought there were two interesting things from a translation point of view it in this short passage. I’ve never read the story, and now I totally want to, but I think the lady of the house is not the best fit if her name is in the story that would work the best, but if it’s not there, maybe calling her the owner or the barkeep or whatever is a better translation. The translation would depend on what Madame refers to. but I don’t think lady of the house works very well for this context. If madame is a patron there maybe is a better fit for the English. I also think there’s something really interesting to be said about the use of wa and ga in the excerpt and how that is wonderfully reflected in the other character using the phrase itsumo. I think the translation worked well… the Japanese so evocative. I wonder if the story is ever been translated into English if not, you should definitely do it! It’s a beauty.
Hi Leanne, thanks so much for your comment. I love your newsletter! I agree with you and I actually had barkeep at first, but decided I wanted to emphasize the fact that it was a reference to a lady. I sometimes regret my translations after I send them out. I think I should have left it as Madame here. I'm not sure if this novel has been translated, but maybe Stephen Dodd might at some point. I don't really fancy myself a translator (I lack the patience), but I do really enjoy making these snippets. I loved this passage because, as you said, it's so evocative that you can immediately picture the scene. I think the bunkobon is still available on Amazon JP. Looking forward to your next post!
It looks like a great novel I thought it was a short story but a novel? Somebody should definitely translate it I looked at the Japanese Wikipedia page and it looks really interesting! I really enjoy your newsletter so much!
Dear Bunsuke,
I can understand words in this excerpt, but I don't understand the sentences, even with your translation.
A lady of the house - what is this house? A house where someone is living? A mise in the meaning of a bar?
And I don't get why 店へ来るほどの男 translates as the kind of man that frequents a place like this.
Help !
Hi Dana,
Yes 店 can mean 'establishment' not just 'store' so it can be used for bars and restaurants as well.
ほど always refers to an extent. So the difference between this sentence with or without ほど is:
店へ来る男 men who come to this establishment
店へ来るほどの男 men of the extent/type that come to this establishment
Although it's not completely the same, you could create a similar effect by saying something like 店へ来るような男. The implications of ほどの and ような are slightly different, but perhaps this makes the grammar more understandable.
Hope this answers your question!
Hi Bunsuke, I thought there were two interesting things from a translation point of view it in this short passage. I’ve never read the story, and now I totally want to, but I think the lady of the house is not the best fit if her name is in the story that would work the best, but if it’s not there, maybe calling her the owner or the barkeep or whatever is a better translation. The translation would depend on what Madame refers to. but I don’t think lady of the house works very well for this context. If madame is a patron there maybe is a better fit for the English. I also think there’s something really interesting to be said about the use of wa and ga in the excerpt and how that is wonderfully reflected in the other character using the phrase itsumo. I think the translation worked well… the Japanese so evocative. I wonder if the story is ever been translated into English if not, you should definitely do it! It’s a beauty.
Hi Leanne, thanks so much for your comment. I love your newsletter! I agree with you and I actually had barkeep at first, but decided I wanted to emphasize the fact that it was a reference to a lady. I sometimes regret my translations after I send them out. I think I should have left it as Madame here. I'm not sure if this novel has been translated, but maybe Stephen Dodd might at some point. I don't really fancy myself a translator (I lack the patience), but I do really enjoy making these snippets. I loved this passage because, as you said, it's so evocative that you can immediately picture the scene. I think the bunkobon is still available on Amazon JP. Looking forward to your next post!
It looks like a great novel I thought it was a short story but a novel? Somebody should definitely translate it I looked at the Japanese Wikipedia page and it looks really interesting! I really enjoy your newsletter so much!