The other day I was talking with a friend about the role of translation. We discussed how much of the original is often lost in translation, and that it is therefore important to be able to read texts in their original languages. But we also talked about how translations can enrich languages: new phrases and words are sometimes born from translations that, over time, give shape to speech patterns or even to collective value systems in a target language.
This made me curious about how all of you feel about this topic.
How do you feel about reading in translation? Do you think translations add something of cultural/linguistic value? Or do you feel that too much of the atmosphere of the original text is lost in translations? Please leave a comment below!
I remember I read an interview of some American translator and he said something like "readers usually think that by reading translations they can get closer to that foreign (Japanese) culture and the author, but they don't realise that translation is a creation of both the author and the translator, so it is already like an internationalized version". Though maybe it is not that much about books, but it is true for manga, games, films and anime, as there they have some space limitations in which the original message must be conveyed (like, in manga they have small text balloons, and in films they have to sync the phrases with the speed of the original). And even in books, in most cases the atmosphere of both versions can be close but it still feels somehow different.
So, if I can get an original I choose it... But not always actually. Maybe it's just me, but I read slower in foreign languages. It takes more time to finish a book, I pay more attention to not miss the details, so I get more invested. So all uplifting moments naturally feel more rewarding, but all particularly dark moments hit much much more. And that is not always what I want in my books. So, I prefer to read at least the first book by a new author in translation just to know what I am going to deal with.
Anyway, wish everyone here all the best next week~ ^_^
Hi Victoria, thanks for your fascinating contribution. It makes a lot of sense that you want to filter a books through a translation before you read it in the language closest to you. I almost only read in Japanese, because I love the language. I have less of an interest in English or Dutch, so I notice my attention fades when I read in those languages. It's really interesting how our relationships with different languages allow us to have all kinds of experiences.
Translations can also be productions of their own, translating a cultural context and changing it for the one of the aimed country.
In Phoenix Wright, the kansai accent is translated in french into french south accent. Other cultural references only know to japanese like TV programs, public persons, etc can also be the aim of such original translations, trading them for ones that will be know to the aimed audience.
I don't know how much the translators consent with the original authors on the degree of liberty they should aim for ^^
I certainly agree that it can be the source of new syntaxes, way of speaking and new words.
Recently in Monster Hunter Rise, they have so much fantasy-like made up words that they had to invent other ones to for the french version. Often creating words from a mix of two as it is done for greek in french since long ago.
Japan also has a lot of history about the importation of new words starting with the importation of kanjis and a lot of word related to them, but also during the meiji period when japan imported all the sciences and other concepts from the West. This period was called the "translated textbooks", as they translated a lot of western books as is, to feed the new education system of japan.
Importing by the same way other less good concepts like, "scientific" racism that was sprouting at the time in Europe 😅
None the less it is nice to find from time to time scientific terms in japanese seemingly coming from the west like 乳歯 or 奇数, making them easily to remember for us x)
Hi Tom, thanks for posting these fascinating examples! By the way, if you're interested in translation in the Meiji period, I recommend taking a look at Howland's Translating the West. Other great reads are Yanabu Akira's『翻訳語成立事情』and Hida Yoshifumi's『明治生まれの日本語』. Thanks again for this great comment!
Translations are needed because one isn't always able to read in the original language. I do prefer reading books in the original language if possible. Good translations can enrich and add to the pleasure of reading, although bad translations do just the opposite. You might end up disliking an author's work, but in fact it is due to the translations that are bad. I had that quite a few times when reading a novel in English and in Dutch, often the Dutch translations were so off that meaning, colours and nuances, especially humour changed completely. In these two languages I can compare. I enjoyed reading your comments. In Japanese I still have to read the English translations, but I do try to read little sentences in Japanese and look for differences in translation, but if you don't really know both languages fluent it is hard to comment, because you aren't able to tell if the translations are good or not. So I will get back at your very interesting question Bunsuke, very interesting indeed in few years give or take.
Thanks for your comment, Koppa! I suppose the only way to get a feel for a language is continued exposure. Hopefully the little excerpts from this newsletter help to increase your feeling for different writing styles in Japanese.
"But we also talked about how translations can enrich languages: new phrases and words are sometimes born from translations [...]"
This is really interesting to me, and I'd like to give an example about it from my country.
Here in Brazil we have a plethora of expressions and idioms, I sometimes even think how hard it must be for a foreigner learning Portuguese. But one of them, which is standard in movies, is never used in everyday life: Tira.
Tira is the movie translation for Cops, but the thing is, nobody says that!
I've found out that it was born from a necessity to translate that single syllable word to match the timing of the dubs. And, 'til this day, no one's sure about it's origin.
This is to show how marvelous and interesting the job of translating can be.
Hi Robert, thank you for sharing this fascinating example! I'm curious how long it will take before people actually start using the word in daily life...
I’m generally opposed to reading in translation, and I think it’s mainly because of my experience with Japanese. I know personally how much nuance is lost in translation for Japanese, so I think I just assume that it’s the same for every other language in translation. I’ve always felt that, when reading in translation, I’m reading the words of the translator more than the words of the original author.
However, I know that a lot of people outside of mainly English speaking countries read a lot of books in translation and don’t have a problem with it. I get the idea that some languages preserve nuance more easily when translated — at least more easily than Japanese? One thing that always helps to preserve nuance is footnotes, so if I ever read something in translation I make sure to get an edition that has translator’s notes.
Hi Sam, thank you for your contribution. I completely agree with your last point. I always love reading translations with a lot of footnotes. But unfortunately, the common trend now is to get rid of footnotes, as the modern reader finds them obtrusive rather than instructive.
I try to read in the original language to preserve the phrasing of the author. I think it does matter to an extent. Depending on the topic, expressions and such, some things cannot fully translate or need to be translated with different wording than the original. It is a lesser loss since it can still convey the meaning, and it's somewhat necessary if you don't know the original language, but if possible why not maintain it?
Counter question! When preparing the newsletter and translating the japanese text, do you feel like you're missing something in the translation you provide? Do you think there is some necessary cut or that sone things cannot be translated to the letter but be conveyed with different wording than the original?
Hi Giacomo, thanks so much for your comment and question. I agree that it's important to maintain as much of the original structure of the language. But I also really like it when I can understand both the target and source languages so that I can compare the two.
To answer your question: yes. Not always, but sometimes I have to change around the logistics of a sentence in order to fit all of the information into the translation. I rarely omit information, but when it comes to things like accents and local dialects (宮本輝 uses a lot of Kansai dialect in his dialogues, such as さかい), old versus new kanji/kana usage (している vs. してゐる), or simply wording that has a certain nuance in Japanese that cannot be reflected in translation (細君 vs. 妻, or 夕餉 vs. 夕飯, etc.), these things are almost impossible to take into account when translating.
I remember I read an interview of some American translator and he said something like "readers usually think that by reading translations they can get closer to that foreign (Japanese) culture and the author, but they don't realise that translation is a creation of both the author and the translator, so it is already like an internationalized version". Though maybe it is not that much about books, but it is true for manga, games, films and anime, as there they have some space limitations in which the original message must be conveyed (like, in manga they have small text balloons, and in films they have to sync the phrases with the speed of the original). And even in books, in most cases the atmosphere of both versions can be close but it still feels somehow different.
So, if I can get an original I choose it... But not always actually. Maybe it's just me, but I read slower in foreign languages. It takes more time to finish a book, I pay more attention to not miss the details, so I get more invested. So all uplifting moments naturally feel more rewarding, but all particularly dark moments hit much much more. And that is not always what I want in my books. So, I prefer to read at least the first book by a new author in translation just to know what I am going to deal with.
Anyway, wish everyone here all the best next week~ ^_^
And I hope you have a great week, as well ;)
Hi Victoria, thanks for your fascinating contribution. It makes a lot of sense that you want to filter a books through a translation before you read it in the language closest to you. I almost only read in Japanese, because I love the language. I have less of an interest in English or Dutch, so I notice my attention fades when I read in those languages. It's really interesting how our relationships with different languages allow us to have all kinds of experiences.
Translations can also be productions of their own, translating a cultural context and changing it for the one of the aimed country.
In Phoenix Wright, the kansai accent is translated in french into french south accent. Other cultural references only know to japanese like TV programs, public persons, etc can also be the aim of such original translations, trading them for ones that will be know to the aimed audience.
I don't know how much the translators consent with the original authors on the degree of liberty they should aim for ^^
I certainly agree that it can be the source of new syntaxes, way of speaking and new words.
Recently in Monster Hunter Rise, they have so much fantasy-like made up words that they had to invent other ones to for the french version. Often creating words from a mix of two as it is done for greek in french since long ago.
Japan also has a lot of history about the importation of new words starting with the importation of kanjis and a lot of word related to them, but also during the meiji period when japan imported all the sciences and other concepts from the West. This period was called the "translated textbooks", as they translated a lot of western books as is, to feed the new education system of japan.
Importing by the same way other less good concepts like, "scientific" racism that was sprouting at the time in Europe 😅
None the less it is nice to find from time to time scientific terms in japanese seemingly coming from the west like 乳歯 or 奇数, making them easily to remember for us x)
Hi Tom, thanks for posting these fascinating examples! By the way, if you're interested in translation in the Meiji period, I recommend taking a look at Howland's Translating the West. Other great reads are Yanabu Akira's『翻訳語成立事情』and Hida Yoshifumi's『明治生まれの日本語』. Thanks again for this great comment!
Translations are needed because one isn't always able to read in the original language. I do prefer reading books in the original language if possible. Good translations can enrich and add to the pleasure of reading, although bad translations do just the opposite. You might end up disliking an author's work, but in fact it is due to the translations that are bad. I had that quite a few times when reading a novel in English and in Dutch, often the Dutch translations were so off that meaning, colours and nuances, especially humour changed completely. In these two languages I can compare. I enjoyed reading your comments. In Japanese I still have to read the English translations, but I do try to read little sentences in Japanese and look for differences in translation, but if you don't really know both languages fluent it is hard to comment, because you aren't able to tell if the translations are good or not. So I will get back at your very interesting question Bunsuke, very interesting indeed in few years give or take.
Thanks for your comment, Koppa! I suppose the only way to get a feel for a language is continued exposure. Hopefully the little excerpts from this newsletter help to increase your feeling for different writing styles in Japanese.
Indeed your newsletter are a great help, so thank you so much.
"But we also talked about how translations can enrich languages: new phrases and words are sometimes born from translations [...]"
This is really interesting to me, and I'd like to give an example about it from my country.
Here in Brazil we have a plethora of expressions and idioms, I sometimes even think how hard it must be for a foreigner learning Portuguese. But one of them, which is standard in movies, is never used in everyday life: Tira.
Tira is the movie translation for Cops, but the thing is, nobody says that!
I've found out that it was born from a necessity to translate that single syllable word to match the timing of the dubs. And, 'til this day, no one's sure about it's origin.
This is to show how marvelous and interesting the job of translating can be.
Hi Robert, thank you for sharing this fascinating example! I'm curious how long it will take before people actually start using the word in daily life...
If anyone is interested, they should read Benjamin's the Task of the Translator!
That's a great text, indeed! Thanks for sharing.
I’m generally opposed to reading in translation, and I think it’s mainly because of my experience with Japanese. I know personally how much nuance is lost in translation for Japanese, so I think I just assume that it’s the same for every other language in translation. I’ve always felt that, when reading in translation, I’m reading the words of the translator more than the words of the original author.
However, I know that a lot of people outside of mainly English speaking countries read a lot of books in translation and don’t have a problem with it. I get the idea that some languages preserve nuance more easily when translated — at least more easily than Japanese? One thing that always helps to preserve nuance is footnotes, so if I ever read something in translation I make sure to get an edition that has translator’s notes.
Hi Sam, thank you for your contribution. I completely agree with your last point. I always love reading translations with a lot of footnotes. But unfortunately, the common trend now is to get rid of footnotes, as the modern reader finds them obtrusive rather than instructive.
I try to read in the original language to preserve the phrasing of the author. I think it does matter to an extent. Depending on the topic, expressions and such, some things cannot fully translate or need to be translated with different wording than the original. It is a lesser loss since it can still convey the meaning, and it's somewhat necessary if you don't know the original language, but if possible why not maintain it?
Counter question! When preparing the newsletter and translating the japanese text, do you feel like you're missing something in the translation you provide? Do you think there is some necessary cut or that sone things cannot be translated to the letter but be conveyed with different wording than the original?
Hi Giacomo, thanks so much for your comment and question. I agree that it's important to maintain as much of the original structure of the language. But I also really like it when I can understand both the target and source languages so that I can compare the two.
To answer your question: yes. Not always, but sometimes I have to change around the logistics of a sentence in order to fit all of the information into the translation. I rarely omit information, but when it comes to things like accents and local dialects (宮本輝 uses a lot of Kansai dialect in his dialogues, such as さかい), old versus new kanji/kana usage (している vs. してゐる), or simply wording that has a certain nuance in Japanese that cannot be reflected in translation (細君 vs. 妻, or 夕餉 vs. 夕飯, etc.), these things are almost impossible to take into account when translating.