Hereby the vocabulary, as kindly pointed out, some translations or readings, might not be correct, but that's why this project is so nice; I don't have to figure it out all be myself and we can help each other even if I'm still, a late beginner yes and working together like this is much more fun. I know looking up isn't enough and kanji always needs to be seen in context as those this story, which is intriguing . Thank you so much for all your helpful comments, tips and advice.
Soooo....the narrator takes us through the maze that is T's twisted mind. He can't help but be jealous of his wife's feelings for the character he created. Yet he'll feel more equal to her if she really does have an affair with someone she thinks is not him. He knows it's ridiculous but he's too proud and ashamed to tell her the truth and end the ruse.
He also has mixed feelings about her welcoming this stranger. Here he shows the first sign of a conscience: he realizes that they've become estranged as a married couple (my response: DUH! You've been having affairs all along!) and that his wife is depressed and lonely enough to give herself over to a stranger who pays some attention to her. He is also intrigued by this hidden side of her since she usually conforms to the moral standards of society. He sees the effect his affairs have on his marriage. Yet his decision to see this game through to the end is because he's never experienced such a thrilling hidden romance (hope I got that right). Essentially, he's a thrill-seeker in love with his own game. He also wants to confirm his wife's feelings.
He gets ready for another disguised encounter with his wife and thinks he has three options for ending this troublesome double life. I think the ending won't go according to any of his 3 options. If I misinterpreted something, please let me know!
Hi Ai, very good, you have a very solid grasp of what is going on! I'm sure this is very helpful for your fellow readers! Keep up the great work. Just one more day...
Tｈanks for your deep analyse , it helps me a lot to understand T's motivations - I am not good at reading between the lines if I am not good at reading the lines themselves :).
The idea is that he will quit being T, who has become estranged from his wife and for who the world has no use, and instead will completely become the fictional man he has created.
Replying to myself now, it's perhaps more that T has nothing left in this world, rather than that the world has no use for him. I read over this part of the question slightly carelessly, apologies.
(Bunsuke please confirm for us all)....Dana, I interpreted option # 3 as T choosing to become the character he created, if his wife really loves him and doesn't love the real T anymore.
This is really fun. I feel like it's the first time I've been able to "feel" a distinct literary style in a Japanese text. While I do need to check vocabulary often, it's always easy to look up and with very little ambiguity. I just learned 五分五分 - I'm not sure how I managed to live without it until now !
Anyway, I do have a question regarding this sentence : つまり、彼の恋がたきは、とりも直さず、かれ自身にほかなからぬのだ。I understand that the general meaning is that "In other words, his rival in love was none other than himself" but I have no idea what とりも直さず means here.
I'm very curious to find out which of the 3 options mentioned at the end of this passage T will choose ...
Hahah very good, this is indeed the correct answer :) sometimes it's difficult to immediately recognize these fixed patterns, especially because there are so many. One step at a time :)
I'm absolutely weak for characters who have done bad things feeling regret for the bad things that they have done, so I absolutely adored these two pages. Also, it only took me half an hour per page this time, mainly due to my handy dandy method called "ignore the parts you don't understand if they're few and far enough, because Edogawa's writing style is prone to repeating the same gist multiple times in a page". Very memorable I know. But these two pages were essentially: T regretting having carried out his plan, and being jealous of himself, then finally deciding to do something about it. The first two of which were a page and a half.
Still loved it though anyway onto those confusing parts eh
1: 形容のできぬへんてこなものであった ([it's certain that T's feelings were [really] strange and without form (maybe meaning unfixed?))
2: この世に二人ともないもの (a world in which they're not together?)
3: それはまんざら嬉しくないこともなかった (it wasn't a wholly unhappy thought [to think that the man she was hung up on was really him]? Either that or 'it didn't really help')
4: 生まれて初めて経験した忍ぶ恋路の身も世もあらぬ楽しさを、Tはどうにも忘れかねた。 (It was hard for T to forget the unthinkable pleasure of having forbidden love for the first time in his life?)
I believe that is あきらめる(give up)+かねる(to be unable to do something). It basically means the wife "can not give up" on her love for the mysterious man visiting her at night.
Hereby the vocabulary, as kindly pointed out, some translations or readings, might not be correct, but that's why this project is so nice; I don't have to figure it out all be myself and we can help each other even if I'm still, a late beginner yes and working together like this is much more fun. I know looking up isn't enough and kanji always needs to be seen in context as those this story, which is intriguing . Thank you so much for all your helpful comments, tips and advice.
Reading project pages 112-113
心持ち こころもち feeling
実際 じっさい practicality;
形容 けいよう describing
或 ある a certain ...; some ...
相違 そうい difference
一方 いっぽう one way, direction
放蕩 ほうとう dissipation
必要 ひつよう necessary
この世 このよ this world; the present life
葬る ほうむる to bury
真剣 しんけん seriousness
肩身 かたみ shoulders
仕掛ける しかける to start
夫婦 ふうふ、めおと、みょうとmarried couple
隔意 かくい reserved
同時に どうじに coincident with
海鼠 なまこ sea cucumber
経験 けいけん experience
辞職 じしょく resignation
いつも通りに有難う御座いますね
Anyway I guess I'll do my part and mention the words I took for different definitions:
実際 really
形容 form? I think?
相違 is probably part of 相違ない which means certain
一方 can also mean on the one hand, which I think is it's usage a with one exception I think
放蕩 debauchery
Very good!
This is great, everybody is grateful that you're making these lists, and of course we can adjust it together later. Keep up the great work!
Soooo....the narrator takes us through the maze that is T's twisted mind. He can't help but be jealous of his wife's feelings for the character he created. Yet he'll feel more equal to her if she really does have an affair with someone she thinks is not him. He knows it's ridiculous but he's too proud and ashamed to tell her the truth and end the ruse.
He also has mixed feelings about her welcoming this stranger. Here he shows the first sign of a conscience: he realizes that they've become estranged as a married couple (my response: DUH! You've been having affairs all along!) and that his wife is depressed and lonely enough to give herself over to a stranger who pays some attention to her. He is also intrigued by this hidden side of her since she usually conforms to the moral standards of society. He sees the effect his affairs have on his marriage. Yet his decision to see this game through to the end is because he's never experienced such a thrilling hidden romance (hope I got that right). Essentially, he's a thrill-seeker in love with his own game. He also wants to confirm his wife's feelings.
He gets ready for another disguised encounter with his wife and thinks he has three options for ending this troublesome double life. I think the ending won't go according to any of his 3 options. If I misinterpreted something, please let me know!
Hi Ai, very good, you have a very solid grasp of what is going on! I'm sure this is very helpful for your fellow readers! Keep up the great work. Just one more day...
Tｈanks for your deep analyse , it helps me a lot to understand T's motivations - I am not good at reading between the lines if I am not good at reading the lines themselves :).
And frankly , I don't understand the idea No 3...
彼が、細君にあいそをつかされた、いわばこの世に用のないＴという人物を辞職して、その代りに一方の仮想の男になり切って了うこと。
What the hell he is preparing？！。。。 Somebody help me please.
Dana
The idea is that he will quit being T, who has become estranged from his wife and for who the world has no use, and instead will completely become the fictional man he has created.
Replying to myself now, it's perhaps more that T has nothing left in this world, rather than that the world has no use for him. I read over this part of the question slightly carelessly, apologies.
The sentences seem to have so many nuances...this is what I love about literature. Today's section really got into T's head.
(Bunsuke please confirm for us all)....Dana, I interpreted option # 3 as T choosing to become the character he created, if his wife really loves him and doesn't love the real T anymore.
Correct, although the sentence reads that his wife already does not love T anymore (perhaps as she is now into the bearded stranger...).
Thanks! Now I can dive into the last part! Ha!
My phrasing was awkward earlier, I reposted my reponse.
Ohhh okay I stopped agonising over the parts I didn't fully understand so this was helpful!
This is really fun. I feel like it's the first time I've been able to "feel" a distinct literary style in a Japanese text. While I do need to check vocabulary often, it's always easy to look up and with very little ambiguity. I just learned 五分五分 - I'm not sure how I managed to live without it until now !
Anyway, I do have a question regarding this sentence : つまり、彼の恋がたきは、とりも直さず、かれ自身にほかなからぬのだ。I understand that the general meaning is that "In other words, his rival in love was none other than himself" but I have no idea what とりも直さず means here.
I'm very curious to find out which of the 3 options mentioned at the end of this passage T will choose ...
Okay I know I'm responding to myself but just in case I did find a definition for とりも直さず, which clears it up.
”前述が次に述べる事と同等であるという意味を示す語。「すなわち」「要するに」とも言う。”
https://www.weblio.jp/content/%E3%81%A8%E3%82%8A%E3%82%82%E3%81%AA%E3%81%8A%E3%81%95%E3%81%9A#:~:text=%E5%8F%96%E3%82%8A%E3%82%82%E7%9B%B4%E3%81%95%E3%81%9A&text=%E5%89%8D%E8%BF%B0%E3%81%8C%E6%AC%A1%E3%81%AB%E8%BF%B0%E3%81%B9%E3%82%8B,%E3%80%8C%E8%A6%81%E3%81%99%E3%82%8B%E3%81%AB%E3%80%8D%E3%81%A8%E3%82%82%E8%A8%80%E3%81%86%E3%80%82
Hahah very good, this is indeed the correct answer :) sometimes it's difficult to immediately recognize these fixed patterns, especially because there are so many. One step at a time :)
I'm absolutely weak for characters who have done bad things feeling regret for the bad things that they have done, so I absolutely adored these two pages. Also, it only took me half an hour per page this time, mainly due to my handy dandy method called "ignore the parts you don't understand if they're few and far enough, because Edogawa's writing style is prone to repeating the same gist multiple times in a page". Very memorable I know. But these two pages were essentially: T regretting having carried out his plan, and being jealous of himself, then finally deciding to do something about it. The first two of which were a page and a half.
Still loved it though anyway onto those confusing parts eh
1: 形容のできぬへんてこなものであった ([it's certain that T's feelings were [really] strange and without form (maybe meaning unfixed?))
2: この世に二人ともないもの (a world in which they're not together?)
3: それはまんざら嬉しくないこともなかった (it wasn't a wholly unhappy thought [to think that the man she was hung up on was really him]? Either that or 'it didn't really help')
4: 生まれて初めて経験した忍ぶ恋路の身も世もあらぬ楽しさを、Tはどうにも忘れかねた。 (It was hard for T to forget the unthinkable pleasure of having forbidden love for the first time in his life?)
So few!! Let's see if this keeps up tomorrow haha
1. It was a strange thing that was difficult to describe/qualify. (See for instance 形容詞)
2. Someone of whom there is no second (i.e. someone who is unique)
3. (the first one) The thought wasn't a wholly unpleasant one.
4. Correct!
You're progress has been amazing in just a week. I hope you'll make reading a habit and that you'll join in for the next project as well.
There's one section in this segment that I can't figure out:
あきらめかねている
Looks like T's debauchery has really put him in a pickle now. I wonder which plan of action he'll choose in the end.
I believe that is あきらめる(give up)+かねる(to be unable to do something). It basically means the wife "can not give up" on her love for the mysterious man visiting her at night.
You're correct Jon! Great job!