I have a grammar question. I never seem to understand when to use ように (well, one of the many) and for example, in this phrase from the text, could it be used instead?
this document helped quite a lot as far as I've read. I saved it to study it thoroughly later, if you don't mind.
Really liked how it summarized the topic in two sentences at most and went straight to examples; This compact layout always worked well for me when I needed to review something.
Do you happen to have more documents like this you would be willing to share?
I'm glad that it helped! I haven't really made more like these, but you may like the "dictionary of basic/intermediate/advanced Japanese grammar" series. The format is somewhat similar.
I read some more last night up to ⅓ of page 381. This morning I flipped through what I did yesterday and was pleased to find I remembered a good amount of the new vocab. This evening I finished page 381 in 1.5 hours at a pace of around 3-4 minutes per sentence... (hopefully my future self will find these dubious statistics useful)
I’m still optimising my reading - I was writing out full sentences, underlining new vocab and adding necessary kana readings on top, while now I only write out clauses I don't understand, and mainly annotate directly on my printout to have everything in one space. Lots of footnotes and questions :3
When I said translating in yesterday's post, I meant transcribing my thought process (because there’s not enough working space in my head...) Incredibly I found towards the end I didn’t need to do this much anymore because I could store more clauses in my head - initially I was getting to the end of a sentence and forgetting what had happened at the start!
It feels like I’m learning how to read all over again - in English, if I turn to a page and just have it in my line of vision I can get an idea of where I am, what’s happening - but here it really is word by word; the word order is really important haha (I finally get what delaying the verb to the end of the sentence for dramatic effect in Latin was all about...)
I'll probably have some more language questions tomorrow - hope everyone is still having fun, and looking forward to reading your comments! I am also aiming to catch up... dubious whether I can make it to page 387 before tomorrow, but even one page more is more literature exposure, and the more I read the faster it becomes, so that's progress!
Nana, you're doing so well. Just keep at it at your own pace. Don't feel pressured to keep up with the 4-page per day pace. Just keep doing what you're doing and share with the community what you're struggling with and what you enjoyed. You are most definitely making progress, it just takes some time until you start noticing the results yourself. Although you can already tell your reading speed has increased compared to day 1.
I think it's great you guys are sharing reading strategies as well. Glad to see the project is having the desired effect :D
I was feeling pressured that I would finish last, even though it would be kinda childish, but I shouldn't think like that.
I still intend to reread the stuff from yesterday just to make sure I know what I had to know from last time. 4 pages is so daunting, I guess I'm better off making my own goals for the time being
No worries, I’ll be finishing last :D I was busy at work today and had japanese class in the evening so I still haven’t finished page 2. But I’ll continue tomorrow and especially at the weekend. Just keep going!
Awesome to see you both here after a busy day! It's been a while since I've had school haha, nice to feel like I'm studying with others :3 Just attempting the reading is helping in so many aspects :)
No pressure at all...just keep going! It's impressive that you guys are still continuing with the project despite work and life getting in the way. There's absolutely no need to stick to the 4 page per day goal. Just take your time and keep posting your questions, strategies and struggles. Hope you guys are having fun reading this together and sharing experiences :)
"It feels like I’m learning how to read all over again" - I totally feel this.
Like when you're reading in English and you get to the end of the line, your eyes automatically bounce back across the page to the next line and you keep reading.
When it's vertical, I get to the bottom of the page, bounce my eyes back up, they gloss over for a second, then I need to spend a few seconds trying to work out where I was (sometimes having to go back to find where the end of what I just read was)
Hello everyone, I am happy that I found this community. I was not sure how much I would be able to understand literary Japanese but so far I am able to understand and enjoy this story. I am still on Day 2, although it is Day 3 here in the US. I will catch up today.
Hi Aishwarya, thank you for the generous comment! Really happy to hear you're enjoying this reading project. Curious to hear what your reading exprience is for day 3 :)
It’s almost the end of another day here in Nagoya and I’ve read up to page 387. A bit behind schedule, but I’m enjoying the reading. Today my favourite new phrases were 「籠る」to seclude oneself, 「寡黙な」untalkative,
「孤独」loneliness, 「浅薄」shallow, superficial, 「泥沼」bog. I always forget the 的 words and have to look them up every time - 「生理的」instinctive, 「具体的」specific, etc.
So, I can understand the story, but it doesn’t really come to life for me like reading in English does… I guess that comes with experience. The characters aren’t especially likeable in this story lol!
Hi Renee, great! The enjoyment is much more important than sticking to the schedule. Haha, yeah the characters aren't very lovable, but at least Ozawa becomes relatable toward the end of the story.
So I decided to turn it down a notch so I can take it better. I wasn't able to ready today's pages, I tried to focus in getting to understand all the new kanjis that I haven't seen before, so I tried writing each one of the ones I didn't know, then find the meaning, then reread the whole line. As a result I'm still a little short of finishing the 4th page since I'm taking way longer now.
But even then, doing it like this was considerably more enjoyable than if I were to just search the meaning online and move on, so even though this will make me fall behind a lot, I don't mind anymore, this is contributing a lot more for my vocabulary that I needed so much, so I'll stick to it.
I still can't take more than 2 hours reading, but I'm working my way to implement japanese elsewhere other than here, so I guess it's fine. I started playing some games in japanese so there's something else happening to not get tired too quickly (too bad I don't know any games we could all play together for practice).
I will still update what I feel here, even though I'm making more of a diary than actually asking questions. I just find it easier to understand something when I find the answer myself.
Hi Matt, that is absolutely fine. The pace of 4-page per day is a completely arbitrary decision on my part, so please keep doing what you're doing, and please keep commenting on whatever you're reading. Ignore the page numbers I indicate at the top of the thread. If you have a question about the first page on day 4, that's absolutely fine!
You're doing really well, as I can tell you're doing all the right things. Take your time, go at your own pace, but just keep going. I look forward to hearing about your daily progress.
Oh but I do wonder, since there's still too many kanjis I don't understand easily, I wonder if pushing through the book is alright or if I should study some more kanji separately for the time being
こんばんは Matt, taking it at a pace that works for you sounds like a good idea! Firm believer of that myself... //stares at page 382
I accidentally picked up an English book today and just stared at how thick it was, imagining a situation where I was learning English and wanted to read it...
I have tried several times to get into a habit of studying kanji (e.g. flashcard decks), but I simply do not derive any sort of enjoyment from it (other than maybe a ✨きらきら✨ feeling when I run into a word I already know) and the habit never sticks... for me at least, learning a language while doing something that can only be done in that language (playing a game, listening to music, reading untranslated manga volumes, getting to hear an author's original voice (if only on their twitter so far)) plays a huge part in my motivation and enjoyment.
I wonder if there's a way I can enjoy 'pure study' of kanji. I hope you find something that works for you :)
Hi Nana, haha I quite enjoy studying kanji (even today) for their own sake, but just to broaden my context of their history and etymology, as well as their calligraphic beauty, but I'm a bit weird, so never mind this.
I think the best way to study kanji is in context...i.e. in exactly the same way we're doing in this project. You read, you see a kanji you don't know, you look it up, you review it in context, and then move on. You might forget it, but if you keep reading you'll almost certainly see it again. This repetition is the only way to really learn, at least in my opinion.
Hehe when I said studying kanji I meant like using the repetitive memorisation software like Anki etc - coming from a Mandarin household, I've grown up in proximity to (albeit Simplified) Chinese characters, so I've been used to writing them since I was small. (Often at Saturday school... not fun.)
Shamelessly I'll say it's only when I started learning Japanese that they seemed to gain a bit of beauty for me... This background sometimes is useful though, with hazarding a guess at the meanings of unknown kanji, or holding the shape of the kanji/radicals in my brain for longer when trying to look them up.
Yup, what you said above about writing the same 'unknown' kanji out several times happened to me as well - but it's nice when you go 'aha!' at one that you have seen before in a previous paragraph, or 'hmm...' when you find one that's just one stroke different.
One of the things I thought about when I dropped rote learning (that's probably the word I'm looking for) of kanji is that - this isn't going to help me because I'm just seeing the words as they flash up on a screen - and if I spend all my time doing this, I won't have time for the stuff I actually want to read. I can see why it could be helpful for others though :)
Yeah I completely agree that rote learning distracts from the things we actually want to be doing with what we're trying to learn. Hopefully this project will get us a bit closer to doing what we actually like.
Are there any other authors that you'd like to read in the future? Perhaps we can make it happen.
(Sorry for the late reply, I have a bunch of errands to run today... also edited my previous deleted comment)
Hehe, I've wanted to read Soseki for a long time. Last year I read a translation of Botchan and enjoyed it, then tried another translation (possibly of Kokoro) but didn't get very far out of childish jealousy of the translator (笑) - I kept wanting to know what the original Japanese said and couldn't concentrate on the story...
"I Am A Cat" is on my reading list but it seems quite long... I was really excited when you posted the audio excerpts of 『銀河鉄道の夜』, but life got in the way so I didn't get to properly digest them... (at some point I intend to go back to this, I see you made some very thorough notes!)
My knowledge of authors and their styles is incredibly limited so I'm looking forward to learning more in the future. Maybe Bunsukeさん can suggest something that might be suitable?
(sorry, the message before got sent before I finished it, so I had to delete)
Me too, I also tried some kanji-only apps, but they take forever to get anywhere and I never stick around long enough for them to leave the N5 stuff. I'm still trying to force myself from interacting with anything other than japanese, but it's so hard to stick in the late-beginner that (think) I am.
But I agree, that incredible feeling of just understanding a sentence with no help is the main reason I started studying english in the first place, like, nothing compares :D
So relatable with the apps! If you're having to force yourself, variety is good as well :)
I think one of my early hurdles which I'm super glad to have passed is confidence in kana, and the destruction of romaji - it opens so many doors... to the kanji struggle haha
Sometimes I think I'm a late beginner as well, when I see younger friends' levels so much higher than mine. But personal improvement (and enjoyment!) is key!
Ohh, your English is native level, awesome! What did/do you find most useful while studying?
I tried replicating what I did back then, but I don't it's working just as well with japanese. Back then, since I didn't have internet connection, my only sources to study from were my games and a dictionary, so I had no choice other than just immerse in what I got. It worked to some extent with japanese, most of the basic grammar stuff was learned by intuition when translating, but it's going a lot slower now.
I think the most useful thing about how I learned english was that I used to keep my goal pretty low and easy to achieve: once I understood what a game said, I would feel rewarded and motivated to do it again and again
Done with Day 2 - had more words to look up this time than last but still not too many overall. Did struggle a bit with 浅薄 only because I kept accidentally typing 簿 instead of 薄...
I was glad to get into the backstory about why 大沢 punched 青木. It was good to see 大沢 critical of his own past behavior and say how that may have made 青木 dislike him as well.
I'm interested in seeing how both characters respond after the incident and what they do next.
Day 2 finished. 大沢 hated 青木's 傲慢 but I felt the same thing from him along the text. At least he recognized that part of himself. It was quite easy this time. I only had to learn one kanji. But I am surprised 剃刀みたいにすぱすぱと切れる男 lays there dumbfounded getting punched. どうやらそこまですぱすぱではなかたですね.www
Hi Myat, congrats on finishing the reading for day 2! Haha yeah I suppose that's true. I think this is what I also like about the story. Even though 大沢 is telling the story from his side, you still get a bit of insight into the psychology of 青木 as well.
I'm a little bit behind! It's Day 4 but I just finished reading the last bit of Day 2. It's still morning here in the US so I think I will try to read Day 3 and some of Day 4 today!
I really liked the part where 大沢 likened his natural dislike of 青木の pridefulness and ego to people's natural dislike of body odor 😂. That part made me laugh!
I'm looking forward to seeing how 青木 reacts in Day 3's reading!
Hi Evelyn, no worries if you don't have time to catch up completely. Everyone's going at this at their own pace. Just keep commenting and posting your questions in one of the threads. Really curious to hear what you think of the rest of the story, and especially what you end up thinking of Aoki ;)
Well! Now we have reached the backstory of him hitting a person. And although it seems justifiable, Oozawa-san tells the story in such a way that I can kind of relate on his regrets of hurting people can be like.
This time, only 28 unknown Kanjis/phrases! Unlike the previous 4 pages where it's double the amount! Though there were some phrases that I have to reread a few times to get the meaning, it was otherwise pretty smooth sailing. Which felt pretty nice for me!
And of course it ends in another cliffhanger XD Can't wait to see what aoki's reply will be when he wakes up. Can't wait for the next day to come!
Hi Harry, yes we're finding out more and more about Ozawa's background! And you're making such quick progress. Perhaps you won't have to look up anything by day 5 :) Great job!!
Let me know what you think of the psychology of Aoki's response to Ozawa's moment of violence.
Hi All, I tried to read through the entire 8 pages last night... I made it, but was so tired at the end I cannot really remember what was happening in the story/ what the content was.
What I would like to ask is, do some people make notes on the stories (in english) as they read, as a way of kind of signposting so that it is easy to pick back up again where you left off? I'm not sure I can read through 12 pages tonight....
Hi Kevin, wow 8 pages! You must be exhausted haha. Perhaps these short reminders below (I'll try not to spoil the story) will refresh your memory a bit, so you won't have to redo the first 8 pages.
- the narrator Boku asks Ozawa, who practices boxing, whether he has ever hit someone outside of the ring.
- Ozawa tells the story of how when he was in middle school, there was an arrogant but very smart kid who knew how to play on people's emotions called Aoki. He hated Aoki and vice versa, even though they rarely interacted.
- Ozawa was never a top student, but for one of the English exams he studied hard and got the top mark in the class. He didn't really care about the fact that he did, but Aoki, who usually would get the top grade, was not amused. Fueled by jealousy, Aoki started spreading rumors that Ozawa had cheated on his test.
- One day, when it was just the two of them, Ozawa and Aoki got into a verbal argument, whereupon Ozawa lost his temper and hit Aoki in the face. Ozawa regretted it instantly, but felt too proud to apologize.
This is a short digest of the first 8 pages. Hope this helps ;)
Bunsuke-san, thank you for the brief summary! When you started out reading, did you find it useful to keep a record of the story as you kept going through long pieces?
I am going to see if I can re-read through the 8 pages, using your signposts to try to remember the way.
You're welcome! I never took notes on content, but I wish I did. I tended to just focus on understanding the language, rather than understanding the story. That approach made the whole exercise a bit dry. Perhaps you can write keywords in the margins so you'll have something to refer to when you review.
Good luck with today's section! Let me know what you think ;)
Good morning! I wanted to ask about some things I've seen on the page that I don't really know what they mean or why it's there:
1 - A long single dash seen twice on page 380 ---------- (I assume it's some kind of pause? Does it have a name? Is there any specific usage?)
2 - An asterisk * 3/4s the way up the page (again, I guess this is like a new paragraph/section kind of deal? Is there a name? Since when was it used?)
3 - On page 384 there is a series of commas 、at the same time as words: それがわかったんだ - What's that about?
Hi Peter, how's the reading going? Hope all is well there.
As for your questions:
1. The long dash is - so to say - similar to our short dashes ;)
2. The asterisk is indeed there to mark a new section. No idea how long it has been around, but there is a name: こめじるし. こめ because it looks like the character for rice. If you type it in Japanese on your keyboard and keep hitting the space bar, eventually you'll get to the ※.
To Bunsuke or anyone else who'd like to answer—how many words do you single out to memorize later on? Through much of the story I'm saving (almost) every unknown word to Anki (I've left out a few that just seem really specific). I'm not sure if I should be doing this to be better prepared for the future, or just read, look up definitions of unknown words and moving out. The former approach seems more safe, though takes a lot more time, and I might forget more on the latter approach, though I suppose I can add study the word if I've forgotten it and come across it again?
Hi ニック, I'm not sure how long it takes to create these Anki decks because I've never used Anki, so I cannot comment on whether that is worth your time. But what works for me is writing new words down and making lists. I never use these lists later on to review, I only make them because the process of writing down things helps me remember them. Having said that, forgetting is just a part of the game. I remember the first book I read, I decided from the outset that I would only write down words I had never seen before. When I went through the list I had made after I finished reading, I saw that I wrote some words down over 12 times, even though every time I wrote it down I was convinced I saw it for the first time.
My overall hope is that this project will help make reading a part of your daily habits. Every time you read, you'll see words that you've seen before (even though you might not realize you've already seen them). This repetition will eventually make you a fluent reader. So in short, I would say: spend some time with each word you look up (preferably not in a digital environment but with pen and paper) and then accept the fact that you'll probably forget it. But no worries. If you keep reading, chances are you'll encounter that word again before long.
Anki is very good at doing what it does(letting you memorize things), but its also boring. It depends on how much you have used it already, but I felt like this video represented very well how I felt about the program https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3sqHvdpBwM
Nowadays, I just dont use anki at all. I feel like it detracts from the experience of reading, and I will eventually come across the words again if I keep reading. Its a bit scary to drop the program altogether, but I think that learning to learn by reading is valuable on its own.
Good luck to everyone else still reading!
I have a grammar question. I never seem to understand when to use ように (well, one of the many) and for example, in this phrase from the text, could it be used instead?
(From the text, p386) それを買ってもらえることになっていたんです。
(Rewritten) それを買ってもらえるようになっていたんです。
If anyone finds it useful, I made this document last year with most basic usages of よう https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GM0iJLBtOgURBKEkwZu2CbjNLhoh0pik/view?usp=drivesdk
Hi RPD, this document looks really great!
In short, ことになる comments on a result, whereas ようになる comments on a shift.
来週大阪に引っ越すことになった → as a result of circumstance, I'm moving to Osaka next week
ボーナスをもらったから、大阪に引っ越せるようになった → because I received a bonus I can now finally move to Osaka (whereas at first I couldn't, because of a lack of money)
Hope this helps!
this document helped quite a lot as far as I've read. I saved it to study it thoroughly later, if you don't mind.
Really liked how it summarized the topic in two sentences at most and went straight to examples; This compact layout always worked well for me when I needed to review something.
Do you happen to have more documents like this you would be willing to share?
I'm glad that it helped! I haven't really made more like these, but you may like the "dictionary of basic/intermediate/advanced Japanese grammar" series. The format is somewhat similar.
I read some more last night up to ⅓ of page 381. This morning I flipped through what I did yesterday and was pleased to find I remembered a good amount of the new vocab. This evening I finished page 381 in 1.5 hours at a pace of around 3-4 minutes per sentence... (hopefully my future self will find these dubious statistics useful)
I’m still optimising my reading - I was writing out full sentences, underlining new vocab and adding necessary kana readings on top, while now I only write out clauses I don't understand, and mainly annotate directly on my printout to have everything in one space. Lots of footnotes and questions :3
When I said translating in yesterday's post, I meant transcribing my thought process (because there’s not enough working space in my head...) Incredibly I found towards the end I didn’t need to do this much anymore because I could store more clauses in my head - initially I was getting to the end of a sentence and forgetting what had happened at the start!
It feels like I’m learning how to read all over again - in English, if I turn to a page and just have it in my line of vision I can get an idea of where I am, what’s happening - but here it really is word by word; the word order is really important haha (I finally get what delaying the verb to the end of the sentence for dramatic effect in Latin was all about...)
I'll probably have some more language questions tomorrow - hope everyone is still having fun, and looking forward to reading your comments! I am also aiming to catch up... dubious whether I can make it to page 387 before tomorrow, but even one page more is more literature exposure, and the more I read the faster it becomes, so that's progress!
Nana, you're doing so well. Just keep at it at your own pace. Don't feel pressured to keep up with the 4-page per day pace. Just keep doing what you're doing and share with the community what you're struggling with and what you enjoyed. You are most definitely making progress, it just takes some time until you start noticing the results yourself. Although you can already tell your reading speed has increased compared to day 1.
I think it's great you guys are sharing reading strategies as well. Glad to see the project is having the desired effect :D
heey I won't feel alone anymore :)
I was feeling pressured that I would finish last, even though it would be kinda childish, but I shouldn't think like that.
I still intend to reread the stuff from yesterday just to make sure I know what I had to know from last time. 4 pages is so daunting, I guess I'm better off making my own goals for the time being
No worries, I’ll be finishing last :D I was busy at work today and had japanese class in the evening so I still haven’t finished page 2. But I’ll continue tomorrow and especially at the weekend. Just keep going!
Awesome to see you both here after a busy day! It's been a while since I've had school haha, nice to feel like I'm studying with others :3 Just attempting the reading is helping in so many aspects :)
No pressure at all...just keep going! It's impressive that you guys are still continuing with the project despite work and life getting in the way. There's absolutely no need to stick to the 4 page per day goal. Just take your time and keep posting your questions, strategies and struggles. Hope you guys are having fun reading this together and sharing experiences :)
"It feels like I’m learning how to read all over again" - I totally feel this.
Like when you're reading in English and you get to the end of the line, your eyes automatically bounce back across the page to the next line and you keep reading.
When it's vertical, I get to the bottom of the page, bounce my eyes back up, they gloss over for a second, then I need to spend a few seconds trying to work out where I was (sometimes having to go back to find where the end of what I just read was)
Yep, exactly! I've ended up using a blank piece of paper to cover the text and track which line I'm on haha
Hello everyone, I am happy that I found this community. I was not sure how much I would be able to understand literary Japanese but so far I am able to understand and enjoy this story. I am still on Day 2, although it is Day 3 here in the US. I will catch up today.
Thank You Bunsuke and Harry for this initiative.
Hi Aishwarya, thank you for the generous comment! Really happy to hear you're enjoying this reading project. Curious to hear what your reading exprience is for day 3 :)
It’s almost the end of another day here in Nagoya and I’ve read up to page 387. A bit behind schedule, but I’m enjoying the reading. Today my favourite new phrases were 「籠る」to seclude oneself, 「寡黙な」untalkative,
「孤独」loneliness, 「浅薄」shallow, superficial, 「泥沼」bog. I always forget the 的 words and have to look them up every time - 「生理的」instinctive, 「具体的」specific, etc.
So, I can understand the story, but it doesn’t really come to life for me like reading in English does… I guess that comes with experience. The characters aren’t especially likeable in this story lol!
Hi Renee, great! The enjoyment is much more important than sticking to the schedule. Haha, yeah the characters aren't very lovable, but at least Ozawa becomes relatable toward the end of the story.
So I decided to turn it down a notch so I can take it better. I wasn't able to ready today's pages, I tried to focus in getting to understand all the new kanjis that I haven't seen before, so I tried writing each one of the ones I didn't know, then find the meaning, then reread the whole line. As a result I'm still a little short of finishing the 4th page since I'm taking way longer now.
But even then, doing it like this was considerably more enjoyable than if I were to just search the meaning online and move on, so even though this will make me fall behind a lot, I don't mind anymore, this is contributing a lot more for my vocabulary that I needed so much, so I'll stick to it.
I still can't take more than 2 hours reading, but I'm working my way to implement japanese elsewhere other than here, so I guess it's fine. I started playing some games in japanese so there's something else happening to not get tired too quickly (too bad I don't know any games we could all play together for practice).
I will still update what I feel here, even though I'm making more of a diary than actually asking questions. I just find it easier to understand something when I find the answer myself.
Hi Matt, that is absolutely fine. The pace of 4-page per day is a completely arbitrary decision on my part, so please keep doing what you're doing, and please keep commenting on whatever you're reading. Ignore the page numbers I indicate at the top of the thread. If you have a question about the first page on day 4, that's absolutely fine!
You're doing really well, as I can tell you're doing all the right things. Take your time, go at your own pace, but just keep going. I look forward to hearing about your daily progress.
PS:
Oh but I do wonder, since there's still too many kanjis I don't understand easily, I wonder if pushing through the book is alright or if I should study some more kanji separately for the time being
こんばんは Matt, taking it at a pace that works for you sounds like a good idea! Firm believer of that myself... //stares at page 382
I accidentally picked up an English book today and just stared at how thick it was, imagining a situation where I was learning English and wanted to read it...
I have tried several times to get into a habit of studying kanji (e.g. flashcard decks), but I simply do not derive any sort of enjoyment from it (other than maybe a ✨きらきら✨ feeling when I run into a word I already know) and the habit never sticks... for me at least, learning a language while doing something that can only be done in that language (playing a game, listening to music, reading untranslated manga volumes, getting to hear an author's original voice (if only on their twitter so far)) plays a huge part in my motivation and enjoyment.
I wonder if there's a way I can enjoy 'pure study' of kanji. I hope you find something that works for you :)
Hi Nana, haha I quite enjoy studying kanji (even today) for their own sake, but just to broaden my context of their history and etymology, as well as their calligraphic beauty, but I'm a bit weird, so never mind this.
I think the best way to study kanji is in context...i.e. in exactly the same way we're doing in this project. You read, you see a kanji you don't know, you look it up, you review it in context, and then move on. You might forget it, but if you keep reading you'll almost certainly see it again. This repetition is the only way to really learn, at least in my opinion.
Hehe when I said studying kanji I meant like using the repetitive memorisation software like Anki etc - coming from a Mandarin household, I've grown up in proximity to (albeit Simplified) Chinese characters, so I've been used to writing them since I was small. (Often at Saturday school... not fun.)
Shamelessly I'll say it's only when I started learning Japanese that they seemed to gain a bit of beauty for me... This background sometimes is useful though, with hazarding a guess at the meanings of unknown kanji, or holding the shape of the kanji/radicals in my brain for longer when trying to look them up.
Yup, what you said above about writing the same 'unknown' kanji out several times happened to me as well - but it's nice when you go 'aha!' at one that you have seen before in a previous paragraph, or 'hmm...' when you find one that's just one stroke different.
One of the things I thought about when I dropped rote learning (that's probably the word I'm looking for) of kanji is that - this isn't going to help me because I'm just seeing the words as they flash up on a screen - and if I spend all my time doing this, I won't have time for the stuff I actually want to read. I can see why it could be helpful for others though :)
Yeah I completely agree that rote learning distracts from the things we actually want to be doing with what we're trying to learn. Hopefully this project will get us a bit closer to doing what we actually like.
Are there any other authors that you'd like to read in the future? Perhaps we can make it happen.
(Sorry for the late reply, I have a bunch of errands to run today... also edited my previous deleted comment)
Hehe, I've wanted to read Soseki for a long time. Last year I read a translation of Botchan and enjoyed it, then tried another translation (possibly of Kokoro) but didn't get very far out of childish jealousy of the translator (笑) - I kept wanting to know what the original Japanese said and couldn't concentrate on the story...
"I Am A Cat" is on my reading list but it seems quite long... I was really excited when you posted the audio excerpts of 『銀河鉄道の夜』, but life got in the way so I didn't get to properly digest them... (at some point I intend to go back to this, I see you made some very thorough notes!)
My knowledge of authors and their styles is incredibly limited so I'm looking forward to learning more in the future. Maybe Bunsukeさん can suggest something that might be suitable?
(sorry, the message before got sent before I finished it, so I had to delete)
Me too, I also tried some kanji-only apps, but they take forever to get anywhere and I never stick around long enough for them to leave the N5 stuff. I'm still trying to force myself from interacting with anything other than japanese, but it's so hard to stick in the late-beginner that (think) I am.
But I agree, that incredible feeling of just understanding a sentence with no help is the main reason I started studying english in the first place, like, nothing compares :D
So relatable with the apps! If you're having to force yourself, variety is good as well :)
I think one of my early hurdles which I'm super glad to have passed is confidence in kana, and the destruction of romaji - it opens so many doors... to the kanji struggle haha
Sometimes I think I'm a late beginner as well, when I see younger friends' levels so much higher than mine. But personal improvement (and enjoyment!) is key!
Ohh, your English is native level, awesome! What did/do you find most useful while studying?
Thank you so much ^_^
I tried replicating what I did back then, but I don't it's working just as well with japanese. Back then, since I didn't have internet connection, my only sources to study from were my games and a dictionary, so I had no choice other than just immerse in what I got. It worked to some extent with japanese, most of the basic grammar stuff was learned by intuition when translating, but it's going a lot slower now.
I think the most useful thing about how I learned english was that I used to keep my goal pretty low and easy to achieve: once I understood what a game said, I would feel rewarded and motivated to do it again and again
I think the same approach (small achievable goals and being proud when you achieve them) works with most things in life. Great job :)
Done with Day 2 - had more words to look up this time than last but still not too many overall. Did struggle a bit with 浅薄 only because I kept accidentally typing 簿 instead of 薄...
I was glad to get into the backstory about why 大沢 punched 青木. It was good to see 大沢 critical of his own past behavior and say how that may have made 青木 dislike him as well.
I'm interested in seeing how both characters respond after the incident and what they do next.
Hi Andrea, congrats on finishing the reading for day 2! I think if 浅薄 was your only issue, you're very well on your way!
Let me know what you thought about how 大沢 deals with his predicament.
Day 2 finished. 大沢 hated 青木's 傲慢 but I felt the same thing from him along the text. At least he recognized that part of himself. It was quite easy this time. I only had to learn one kanji. But I am surprised 剃刀みたいにすぱすぱと切れる男 lays there dumbfounded getting punched. どうやらそこまですぱすぱではなかたですね.www
Hi Myat, congrats on finishing the reading for day 2! Haha yeah I suppose that's true. I think this is what I also like about the story. Even though 大沢 is telling the story from his side, you still get a bit of insight into the psychology of 青木 as well.
Hi everyone,
I'm a little bit behind! It's Day 4 but I just finished reading the last bit of Day 2. It's still morning here in the US so I think I will try to read Day 3 and some of Day 4 today!
I really liked the part where 大沢 likened his natural dislike of 青木の pridefulness and ego to people's natural dislike of body odor 😂. That part made me laugh!
I'm looking forward to seeing how 青木 reacts in Day 3's reading!
Evelyn
Hi Evelyn, no worries if you don't have time to catch up completely. Everyone's going at this at their own pace. Just keep commenting and posting your questions in one of the threads. Really curious to hear what you think of the rest of the story, and especially what you end up thinking of Aoki ;)
Well! Now we have reached the backstory of him hitting a person. And although it seems justifiable, Oozawa-san tells the story in such a way that I can kind of relate on his regrets of hurting people can be like.
This time, only 28 unknown Kanjis/phrases! Unlike the previous 4 pages where it's double the amount! Though there were some phrases that I have to reread a few times to get the meaning, it was otherwise pretty smooth sailing. Which felt pretty nice for me!
And of course it ends in another cliffhanger XD Can't wait to see what aoki's reply will be when he wakes up. Can't wait for the next day to come!
Hi Harry, yes we're finding out more and more about Ozawa's background! And you're making such quick progress. Perhaps you won't have to look up anything by day 5 :) Great job!!
Let me know what you think of the psychology of Aoki's response to Ozawa's moment of violence.
Hi All, I tried to read through the entire 8 pages last night... I made it, but was so tired at the end I cannot really remember what was happening in the story/ what the content was.
What I would like to ask is, do some people make notes on the stories (in english) as they read, as a way of kind of signposting so that it is easy to pick back up again where you left off? I'm not sure I can read through 12 pages tonight....
Hi Kevin, wow 8 pages! You must be exhausted haha. Perhaps these short reminders below (I'll try not to spoil the story) will refresh your memory a bit, so you won't have to redo the first 8 pages.
- the narrator Boku asks Ozawa, who practices boxing, whether he has ever hit someone outside of the ring.
- Ozawa tells the story of how when he was in middle school, there was an arrogant but very smart kid who knew how to play on people's emotions called Aoki. He hated Aoki and vice versa, even though they rarely interacted.
- Ozawa was never a top student, but for one of the English exams he studied hard and got the top mark in the class. He didn't really care about the fact that he did, but Aoki, who usually would get the top grade, was not amused. Fueled by jealousy, Aoki started spreading rumors that Ozawa had cheated on his test.
- One day, when it was just the two of them, Ozawa and Aoki got into a verbal argument, whereupon Ozawa lost his temper and hit Aoki in the face. Ozawa regretted it instantly, but felt too proud to apologize.
This is a short digest of the first 8 pages. Hope this helps ;)
Bunsuke-san, thank you for the brief summary! When you started out reading, did you find it useful to keep a record of the story as you kept going through long pieces?
I am going to see if I can re-read through the 8 pages, using your signposts to try to remember the way.
You're welcome! I never took notes on content, but I wish I did. I tended to just focus on understanding the language, rather than understanding the story. That approach made the whole exercise a bit dry. Perhaps you can write keywords in the margins so you'll have something to refer to when you review.
Good luck with today's section! Let me know what you think ;)
Good morning! I wanted to ask about some things I've seen on the page that I don't really know what they mean or why it's there:
1 - A long single dash seen twice on page 380 ---------- (I assume it's some kind of pause? Does it have a name? Is there any specific usage?)
2 - An asterisk * 3/4s the way up the page (again, I guess this is like a new paragraph/section kind of deal? Is there a name? Since when was it used?)
3 - On page 384 there is a series of commas 、at the same time as words: それがわかったんだ - What's that about?
Hi Peter, how's the reading going? Hope all is well there.
As for your questions:
1. The long dash is - so to say - similar to our short dashes ;)
2. The asterisk is indeed there to mark a new section. No idea how long it has been around, but there is a name: こめじるし. こめ because it looks like the character for rice. If you type it in Japanese on your keyboard and keep hitting the space bar, eventually you'll get to the ※.
3. Commas next to words are there for emphasis.
Hope this helps!
To Bunsuke or anyone else who'd like to answer—how many words do you single out to memorize later on? Through much of the story I'm saving (almost) every unknown word to Anki (I've left out a few that just seem really specific). I'm not sure if I should be doing this to be better prepared for the future, or just read, look up definitions of unknown words and moving out. The former approach seems more safe, though takes a lot more time, and I might forget more on the latter approach, though I suppose I can add study the word if I've forgotten it and come across it again?
Hi ニック, I'm not sure how long it takes to create these Anki decks because I've never used Anki, so I cannot comment on whether that is worth your time. But what works for me is writing new words down and making lists. I never use these lists later on to review, I only make them because the process of writing down things helps me remember them. Having said that, forgetting is just a part of the game. I remember the first book I read, I decided from the outset that I would only write down words I had never seen before. When I went through the list I had made after I finished reading, I saw that I wrote some words down over 12 times, even though every time I wrote it down I was convinced I saw it for the first time.
My overall hope is that this project will help make reading a part of your daily habits. Every time you read, you'll see words that you've seen before (even though you might not realize you've already seen them). This repetition will eventually make you a fluent reader. So in short, I would say: spend some time with each word you look up (preferably not in a digital environment but with pen and paper) and then accept the fact that you'll probably forget it. But no worries. If you keep reading, chances are you'll encounter that word again before long.
Anki is very good at doing what it does(letting you memorize things), but its also boring. It depends on how much you have used it already, but I felt like this video represented very well how I felt about the program https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3sqHvdpBwM
Nowadays, I just dont use anki at all. I feel like it detracts from the experience of reading, and I will eventually come across the words again if I keep reading. Its a bit scary to drop the program altogether, but I think that learning to learn by reading is valuable on its own.