Is it me or do I see a pattern in Kimura's attitude to things?..
In terms of the language, the most interesting thing was probably '何笑しい', I got the meaning only because I read the word out loud :)
And I would be grateful if somebody could explain to me:
1) 'お買なすつたの' - as I understand, it's '買ったの?', but what is that 'なす'?
2) the characters use 'いらしゃって' ’いたします’ - aren't these keigo words? why are they talking to each other using keigo if they are married? or the words were not keigo yet at that time? I'm confused :(
Yeah, in these Meiji/Taisho text there are always loads of things to discover, especially when it comes to kanji usage for specific words. Haha I have the feeling nobody will like Kimura at the end of this.
As for your questions:
1. なする is a different (slightly more archaic) form of なさる and falls under 尊敬語.
2. Back then, and sometimes even now in more conservative circles, it was normal for the wife to talk politely to the husband. So even though they're married, you still have this very clear social hierarchy that is manifested in the language of the characters.
I'm not sure about Kimura, it feels like his not a good translator and full of himself, but I leave the translations over to other people. I see fragments of images and words, but the story as a whole is still unclear to me. I made a wordlist and like to share that with you and put furigana over the text. Might be helpful, sorry I can't do more, but though much easier, still so hard to translate and fully understand. I hope I managed to share the documents, if not I will try again in an other post. I can't wait till my understanding of Japanese text improves, and be at the level most of you are at already.
You're doing great! I know that other readers always greatly appreciate the hard work you put into creating word lists, so thanks for sharing them. Haha and you're completely right about Kimura, he's quite arrogant and insensitive.
yes this two pages were a bit harder to me. I understand vocabulary but the sentences hardly makes sense fluently to me. Of course it's because it's old japanese and we are in the middle of a couple chat with many references we don't know. So there are various topics about others persons or event we don't know about, and looks like Kimure is also quite judgind others persons like Elena said. Did you felt the same?
I like how Mori Ogai insert the sounds from the kitchen. I also liked it in th first two pages. I don't know why, it feels more real maybe and we can imagine the scene.
Sorry for till being a bit late, I will try to make it for tonight.
Yes I completely agree! Kimura is very dismissive of other even though he has no ability for reflection on his own actions…that's what makes his character so engaging, because we as readers are aware of his flaws while he himself is utterly oblivious.
I'm late to the reading party but determined to see this through ! May I ask for this most excellent crowd's help in understanding "そこだて” at the beginning of the 6th column from the left in page 433 ?
Is er a way to upload and share a pdf file? I also put furigana above the kanji, but I can't seem to share the document. For now I copied my word document, but that isn't so neat and structured.
Is it me or do I see a pattern in Kimura's attitude to things?..
In terms of the language, the most interesting thing was probably '何笑しい', I got the meaning only because I read the word out loud :)
And I would be grateful if somebody could explain to me:
1) 'お買なすつたの' - as I understand, it's '買ったの?', but what is that 'なす'?
2) the characters use 'いらしゃって' ’いたします’ - aren't these keigo words? why are they talking to each other using keigo if they are married? or the words were not keigo yet at that time? I'm confused :(
Yeah, in these Meiji/Taisho text there are always loads of things to discover, especially when it comes to kanji usage for specific words. Haha I have the feeling nobody will like Kimura at the end of this.
As for your questions:
1. なする is a different (slightly more archaic) form of なさる and falls under 尊敬語.
2. Back then, and sometimes even now in more conservative circles, it was normal for the wife to talk politely to the husband. So even though they're married, you still have this very clear social hierarchy that is manifested in the language of the characters.
Hope this helps :)
Thank you very much for the explanation! ^^
Of course, you're very welcome :)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Lh6MVBLz6G0Ml0pins75meQpMZuquTW1/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1C7kPqoT52LlPn-EUpsSoE_AtjDIOhgmg/view?usp=sharing
I'm not sure about Kimura, it feels like his not a good translator and full of himself, but I leave the translations over to other people. I see fragments of images and words, but the story as a whole is still unclear to me. I made a wordlist and like to share that with you and put furigana over the text. Might be helpful, sorry I can't do more, but though much easier, still so hard to translate and fully understand. I hope I managed to share the documents, if not I will try again in an other post. I can't wait till my understanding of Japanese text improves, and be at the level most of you are at already.
You're doing great! I know that other readers always greatly appreciate the hard work you put into creating word lists, so thanks for sharing them. Haha and you're completely right about Kimura, he's quite arrogant and insensitive.
And the links with the title is still mysterious haha
This will become clear later on, patience patience ;)
Konbanwa!
yes this two pages were a bit harder to me. I understand vocabulary but the sentences hardly makes sense fluently to me. Of course it's because it's old japanese and we are in the middle of a couple chat with many references we don't know. So there are various topics about others persons or event we don't know about, and looks like Kimure is also quite judgind others persons like Elena said. Did you felt the same?
I like how Mori Ogai insert the sounds from the kitchen. I also liked it in th first two pages. I don't know why, it feels more real maybe and we can imagine the scene.
Sorry for till being a bit late, I will try to make it for tonight.
See you
Yes I completely agree! Kimura is very dismissive of other even though he has no ability for reflection on his own actions…that's what makes his character so engaging, because we as readers are aware of his flaws while he himself is utterly oblivious.
I think you should all be able to see the documents now, just click on the links below.
Thanks so much for sharing these, Koppa!!
I'm late to the reading party but determined to see this through ! May I ask for this most excellent crowd's help in understanding "そこだて” at the beginning of the 6th column from the left in page 433 ?
「そこだて。鉢巻は丁度一巡して元に戻ったのだ。etc
Is er a way to upload and share a pdf file? I also put furigana above the kanji, but I can't seem to share the document. For now I copied my word document, but that isn't so neat and structured.