Hi minna-san, thank you for all of your comments. It really helps the reading. I was also confused about the "Kefu" and this frog story. Now I will remember. If I can help with my French, the text of Zola is about him giving advices to young writers. He said that the problem with young writers is that they can't stand bad reviews about their work. Zola give them the advice to eat a toad every morning, so it is the worst thing of the day that can happen to them (and its cheap). This way they should learn to accept bad reviews and keep writing, if possible every day. See you soon for next pages.
Hi Iseul, thanks for sharing this background! It's really interesting to see how one phrase can evolve over time and take on slightly different meanings along the way. Hope you enjoy the following pages as well!
Hello all ! Really enjoying the story so far. It is indeed easier than the previous one, making it less challenging for me to get the general meaning of sentences. The translations posted in comments really help turn this general understanding into something much more precise, so they're very welcome.
Side note : I had never hear the expression "to swallow frogs (蛙を呑む)" supposedly coined by Emile Zola. I did some quick google research - I hoped being french would help me in that case- but couldn't find anything. I might have to ask a Zola scholar !
Hello, it is my first time to join the immersion reading project and I’m new to historical kana. よろしくお願いします！
I found quite a lot of words that I don’t understand. Still, I enjoy reading it and I am looking forward to what is going to happen. I particularly enjoy reading from line 7 of p.431 to the end of the page about translator and writer (not sure if the author is trying to be sarcastic about the critics?). The rhythm of sentences is so good that I just want to keep reading it. I don't mind the words that I don’t know.
To me, line 5-7 of p.431 is the most difficult to understand. What exactly is this part trying to say?
Hi rei, I'm happy to see you're enjoying your first immersion reading project! I think your approach is spot on, just keep reading. Even if you don't understand everything, reading together in this way is always a fun experience, and you'll learn a lot along the way so your next reading experience will be even smoother and even more enjoyable.
About the lines, this is what it means roughly (from line 4): "Conversely people say about him - sometimes in a roundabout way, sometimes openly, sometimes hinting at it and other times quite blatantly - that he is unable to produce any work of his own. And after publishing a good deal of his own material, people said he isn't showing anything of himself, that he lacks any substance to confess about, and so they deem his writing frivolous."
Just a quick translation, so there are probably better ways to interpret this, but that's the gist! Hope this helps, enjoy :)
This story is def easier than the previous one :D Even if there are confusing things, they become clear thanks to the context. As for the story itself, I absolutely CAN relate because I am a translator myself. I don't know about other translators, but I did start translating fiction because I can't write anything myself, so what people say about Kimura is def true for me :D But I'm not embarrassed about it at all, translating is also a kind of art, in my opinion, and a different from writing kind of art, so Kimura shouldn't feel bad about it :) But at the same time, I do hate when I see a translation which is 誤訳だらけ, that just makes my eyes bleed while my brain burns with fury because this is 1) breaking the readers' trust 2) disrespect to the author of the original work. So I can relate to the critic as well, unless Kimura was falsely accused :) All in all, I'm enjoying the story so far!
Hi Elena, so cool that you're a translator! Which languages do you translate to and from? Haha, I agree, Kimura's position is still a bit ambiguous here. Even though we never really find out if he makes mistakes, I think here it's more important to see how Kimura deals with the accusations than whether they were true. His attitude will tie into the rest of the story, as you'll see ;)
Great to have you here, thanks for letting me know your time zone!
I translate from English into Belarusian, but it's not like i'm a famous translator, i just translate sci-fi stories for some small online community :) And I'm very intrigued by your words, can't wait to read about what's going to happen next in the story ^^
This is my first time trying to understand this literature! I don't think I am mature enough to appreciate its beauty lol. I understand almost every sentence in the first two pages but I still don't get what the author is trying to say in the first place. I am not sure about the significance of the translation stuff discussed in the second page. I assume 木村 is a protagonist and he is struggling as a professional translator?
Questions:
1. What is the context for this short story?
2. What these two「...を書くと...だと云はれる」sentences are trying to say? I can't see how it is relevant.
Hi Jimmy, thanks for joining! No worries if you don't understand everything. Judging from your questions you're doing just fine :)
The segment about translation says that Kimura is a translator, and that he is at first an acclaimed translator, but people say that he translates because he cannot produce anything himself. When a new critic arrives at the literary scene, he accuses Kimura of having made countless mistakes in translation as well, so his reputation as a decent translator is also tarnished.
As for your questions:
1. The story was published in the PR-magazine for a large department store called Mitsukoshi. These magazines contained a mix of product listings, essays, columns, and literary works.
2. These sentences stress the fact that Kimura is misunderstood as a writer. "When he writes... it's deemed..."
This is such a treat, Bunsuke. I've been following the newsletter for a couple of months now but have yet to participate in any of the immersion reading projects. This is my first time reading Meiji period literature with historical kana since I graduated a year back, and I'm thrilled to be back on the horse. The last Ogai piece I read in Japanese was "Under Construction'; I regrettably can't remember the Japanese title. I've found myself struggling with the current work much more than that story, but the challenge is refreshing.
Question: Kimura's wife replies to him with "けふ何かあつて." I assume she's saying something along the lines of "What was that?" I'm just not sure how to parse the けふ。
Thanks for clearing that up, Jimmy! I overestimated my old orthography ability and didn't review the wikipedia page. It's the top of the word chart on there too!
Hi Joseph, so glad you could join us this time. I think the Japanese title of the work you're referring to is 普請中. A classic!
It seems your question concerning けふ was solved below. It's great that you got that this was a question! This is something that many people miss. Hope you enjoy the rest of the story :)
I think the kanji is slightly getting easier, thanks to your previous posts. I'm not sure about the kana, it seems different and sometimes harder, but I could manage. I tried a different approach this time, by not looking every word up, but have difficulty to follow the story, probably because I don't fully understand particles yet. So who said what, or did what. I put furigana on top of the text I found difficult and tried translation, but it doesn't make sense, but here goes:
Ogai P 430
(You) go into the botanical garden," called out (掛けた)?(not sure who called out;is it Kimura?) Does Kimura call out to his wife? Or is his wife calling? Shouldn’t there be a はafterあなた and does thisあなたmean you or beloved wife? from the kitchen. "Well, I'm thinking of living there," Kimura said, pulling out the supplementary book that had been folded into the newspaper's questions and expanding it. No; "If you do it, it's easy for a kicking bitch to do it. "The sound of washing dishes lying down in the basket is heard in the voice of the disciple."Now. I'm in the middle of drinking a frog. And he said, "There's something wrong with Kefu too," without seeming to be keen on the slope. is not the first time that Kimura has been asked to explain his knowledge of Jimiil Zuga. (Those sentences I don’t understand and can’t find in the text??)
P 431
The meaning of the word is understood, said Zora.ぞらはかう云つた。 Who is Zora?, or is meant the sky is cloudy? I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do that. When you become an author, you don't have to say bad things in the newspaper every morning. It swallows it a lot. Kimura is also said ill-spoken in the Mainichi Shimbun when he swallows a living frog in a pile to swallow it whole. I’m also not sure about the frog story? What’s up with that? Who says this of Kimura? Since he had translated many times, he was given the title of translator. On the other hand, people who can not create! The five meanings are hidden or revealed, and the five meanings are flirtatiously attached or blatantly said. Then, when he began to make his own creation, he said that he did not confess himself, rather, he did not have a self to confess, so he was considered to be a literary art of yupi. Some of them are described in detail. If you write a philosophical dialogue, it is said that it is a work without etasite, If you write a crime realistically, it is a detective novel. In short, none of them are of value. The only translation is to help you as you like. However, a brave critic came out during this time, and he broke down that Kimura's translation was full of mistranslation. That was Daiuke. Even those who defend Kimura, even if it is not a mistranslation, it is a mistranslation. With this, I finally realized that there was nothing valuable in Kimura's writing. So now kimura has a new title. It is called "mistranslator."In the newspaper from this summer, critics of various names have changed, and even when writing things that have nothing to do with the heart translation that is cold to Kimura, the mistranslation problem, there are two sayings, "Apart from the mistranslation problem," or "I do not know whether the power of machigaku is known. "Kimura laughed a short while after being interrupted by a servant saying, 'Kefu is something to do with it.'
Maybe this translation makes more sense:
I can see the meaning of that. Once you become an author, you have to speak ill of him in the newspaper every morning. He swallowed it. In the Mainichi Newspapers, Tsukinomura, who had a quarter to say that he swallowed a living frog as a whole, was also criticized. I once did so many translations that I was given the title of translator. On the other hand, I can't create! The meaning of the five phrases was expressed either openly or by implication. He made a great deal of fiction, and afterwards he did not confess himself, but confessed that he had no self, so he was considered a playful literary art. Some of the comments were very detailed. A dialog of philosophical sectarianism might be described as a work without ethacification. If you write a crime in a realistic manner, it is a detective novel. In other words, none of them is valuable. However, I was saved by good translation. However, a brave critic came out, and Kimura's translation was full of mistranslations. It was a great reception. Even if it was a person who defended Kimura, it was a poor translation. This led to the conclusion that Kimura's writing was of no value at all. And now Kimura has a new title. That's the word "misprint." There are two things in the newspaper from this summer, such as "Apart from the problem of wrong translation" or "I don't know whether I have the power of masochist" even when the critics of various names switch and write things that have nothing to do with the heart translation that cools the wrong translator Kimura. "Something's wrong with me, too," Kimura interrupted his wife, and this time he let out a short laugh.
Hi Koppa, thanks for sharing your thorough notes! Here's a rough overview of the first two pages:
p. 430
Kimura's wife calls from the kitchen, asking him if he's going to the botanical garden today, and tells him it's better to go early while it's still cool. Kimura replies he's reading the newspaper, going through the reviews of his translations. He calls this "swallowing a frog" (see Jon's comment). The wife asks him what they wrote about him. The narrator explains that the term "swallowing a frog" comes from the French novelist Emile Zola.
p. 431
Kimura is criticized in the papers on a daily basis. Because he's done a lot of translation work he's received the predicate of "translator". Conversely, he's criticized for not producing anything original. The few original works he does produce are constantly misunderstood and mistakenly categorized. Lately, even his translation work has come under attack from a new critic on the scene, who claims it is full of mistake. As a result, he's stuck with a reputation of "bad translator" (translator who makes a lot of mistakes), a designation that other critics start to copy in their evaluation of his work, even when it doesn't concern a translation.
His wife asks what they wrote about him this time, to which he responds with laughter.
Hope this clarifies some things :) Hope you have fun on day two!
Thank you so much, yes, this really helps, because even if you can read it, to understand this still being at beginner level, is a different story. And like some others here it is hard to know what the author means. 'The swallowing a frog' now makes sense and it's an interesting reference. I look forward to day two and all the comments of the members here are very helpful, so thank you all.
Hi minna-san, thank you for all of your comments. It really helps the reading. I was also confused about the "Kefu" and this frog story. Now I will remember. If I can help with my French, the text of Zola is about him giving advices to young writers. He said that the problem with young writers is that they can't stand bad reviews about their work. Zola give them the advice to eat a toad every morning, so it is the worst thing of the day that can happen to them (and its cheap). This way they should learn to accept bad reviews and keep writing, if possible every day. See you soon for next pages.
Hi Iseul, thanks for sharing this background! It's really interesting to see how one phrase can evolve over time and take on slightly different meanings along the way. Hope you enjoy the following pages as well!
Hello all ! Really enjoying the story so far. It is indeed easier than the previous one, making it less challenging for me to get the general meaning of sentences. The translations posted in comments really help turn this general understanding into something much more precise, so they're very welcome.
Side note : I had never hear the expression "to swallow frogs (蛙を呑む)" supposedly coined by Emile Zola. I did some quick google research - I hoped being french would help me in that case- but couldn't find anything. I might have to ask a Zola scholar !
Hi Jon, glad you could make it! The frog is pretty interesting right?? I found a site where they show this saying's evolution.
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/04/03/eat-frog/
Oh - thanks ! I searched again with the word "crapaud" (toad, not frog) and did indeed find the original story by Zola. https://www.anthologiablog.com/post/le-crapaud-par-emile-zola
Hello, it is my first time to join the immersion reading project and I’m new to historical kana. よろしくお願いします！
I found quite a lot of words that I don’t understand. Still, I enjoy reading it and I am looking forward to what is going to happen. I particularly enjoy reading from line 7 of p.431 to the end of the page about translator and writer (not sure if the author is trying to be sarcastic about the critics?). The rhythm of sentences is so good that I just want to keep reading it. I don't mind the words that I don’t know.
To me, line 5-7 of p.431 is the most difficult to understand. What exactly is this part trying to say?
Hi rei, I'm happy to see you're enjoying your first immersion reading project! I think your approach is spot on, just keep reading. Even if you don't understand everything, reading together in this way is always a fun experience, and you'll learn a lot along the way so your next reading experience will be even smoother and even more enjoyable.
About the lines, this is what it means roughly (from line 4): "Conversely people say about him - sometimes in a roundabout way, sometimes openly, sometimes hinting at it and other times quite blatantly - that he is unable to produce any work of his own. And after publishing a good deal of his own material, people said he isn't showing anything of himself, that he lacks any substance to confess about, and so they deem his writing frivolous."
Just a quick translation, so there are probably better ways to interpret this, but that's the gist! Hope this helps, enjoy :)
This story is def easier than the previous one :D Even if there are confusing things, they become clear thanks to the context. As for the story itself, I absolutely CAN relate because I am a translator myself. I don't know about other translators, but I did start translating fiction because I can't write anything myself, so what people say about Kimura is def true for me :D But I'm not embarrassed about it at all, translating is also a kind of art, in my opinion, and a different from writing kind of art, so Kimura shouldn't feel bad about it :) But at the same time, I do hate when I see a translation which is 誤訳だらけ, that just makes my eyes bleed while my brain burns with fury because this is 1) breaking the readers' trust 2) disrespect to the author of the original work. So I can relate to the critic as well, unless Kimura was falsely accused :) All in all, I'm enjoying the story so far!
And my time zone is GMT+4 :)
Hi Elena, so cool that you're a translator! Which languages do you translate to and from? Haha, I agree, Kimura's position is still a bit ambiguous here. Even though we never really find out if he makes mistakes, I think here it's more important to see how Kimura deals with the accusations than whether they were true. His attitude will tie into the rest of the story, as you'll see ;)
Great to have you here, thanks for letting me know your time zone!
I translate from English into Belarusian, but it's not like i'm a famous translator, i just translate sci-fi stories for some small online community :) And I'm very intrigued by your words, can't wait to read about what's going to happen next in the story ^^
This is my first time trying to understand this literature! I don't think I am mature enough to appreciate its beauty lol. I understand almost every sentence in the first two pages but I still don't get what the author is trying to say in the first place. I am not sure about the significance of the translation stuff discussed in the second page. I assume 木村 is a protagonist and he is struggling as a professional translator?
Questions:
1. What is the context for this short story?
2. What these two「...を書くと...だと云はれる」sentences are trying to say? I can't see how it is relevant.
Hi Jimmy, thanks for joining! No worries if you don't understand everything. Judging from your questions you're doing just fine :)
The segment about translation says that Kimura is a translator, and that he is at first an acclaimed translator, but people say that he translates because he cannot produce anything himself. When a new critic arrives at the literary scene, he accuses Kimura of having made countless mistakes in translation as well, so his reputation as a decent translator is also tarnished.
As for your questions:
1. The story was published in the PR-magazine for a large department store called Mitsukoshi. These magazines contained a mix of product listings, essays, columns, and literary works.
2. These sentences stress the fact that Kimura is misunderstood as a writer. "When he writes... it's deemed..."
Hope this helps!
This is such a treat, Bunsuke. I've been following the newsletter for a couple of months now but have yet to participate in any of the immersion reading projects. This is my first time reading Meiji period literature with historical kana since I graduated a year back, and I'm thrilled to be back on the horse. The last Ogai piece I read in Japanese was "Under Construction'; I regrettably can't remember the Japanese title. I've found myself struggling with the current work much more than that story, but the challenge is refreshing.
Question: Kimura's wife replies to him with "けふ何かあつて." I assume she's saying something along the lines of "What was that?" I'm just not sure how to parse the けふ。
I believe it means 今日 which is pronounced as けふ in old orthography. Have you read this page yet? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_kana_orthography
Thanks for clearing that up, Jimmy! I overestimated my old orthography ability and didn't review the wikipedia page. It's the top of the word chart on there too!
Haha けふ is probably the most confusing one, so it gets easier from here.
Spot on! Good work, Jimmy!
Hi Joseph, so glad you could join us this time. I think the Japanese title of the work you're referring to is 普請中. A classic!
It seems your question concerning けふ was solved below. It's great that you got that this was a question! This is something that many people miss. Hope you enjoy the rest of the story :)
I think the kanji is slightly getting easier, thanks to your previous posts. I'm not sure about the kana, it seems different and sometimes harder, but I could manage. I tried a different approach this time, by not looking every word up, but have difficulty to follow the story, probably because I don't fully understand particles yet. So who said what, or did what. I put furigana on top of the text I found difficult and tried translation, but it doesn't make sense, but here goes:
Ogai P 430
(You) go into the botanical garden," called out (掛けた)?(not sure who called out;is it Kimura?) Does Kimura call out to his wife? Or is his wife calling? Shouldn’t there be a はafterあなた and does thisあなたmean you or beloved wife? from the kitchen. "Well, I'm thinking of living there," Kimura said, pulling out the supplementary book that had been folded into the newspaper's questions and expanding it. No; "If you do it, it's easy for a kicking bitch to do it. "The sound of washing dishes lying down in the basket is heard in the voice of the disciple."Now. I'm in the middle of drinking a frog. And he said, "There's something wrong with Kefu too," without seeming to be keen on the slope. is not the first time that Kimura has been asked to explain his knowledge of Jimiil Zuga. (Those sentences I don’t understand and can’t find in the text??)
P 431
The meaning of the word is understood, said Zora.ぞらはかう云つた。 Who is Zora?, or is meant the sky is cloudy? I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do that. When you become an author, you don't have to say bad things in the newspaper every morning. It swallows it a lot. Kimura is also said ill-spoken in the Mainichi Shimbun when he swallows a living frog in a pile to swallow it whole. I’m also not sure about the frog story? What’s up with that? Who says this of Kimura? Since he had translated many times, he was given the title of translator. On the other hand, people who can not create! The five meanings are hidden or revealed, and the five meanings are flirtatiously attached or blatantly said. Then, when he began to make his own creation, he said that he did not confess himself, rather, he did not have a self to confess, so he was considered to be a literary art of yupi. Some of them are described in detail. If you write a philosophical dialogue, it is said that it is a work without etasite, If you write a crime realistically, it is a detective novel. In short, none of them are of value. The only translation is to help you as you like. However, a brave critic came out during this time, and he broke down that Kimura's translation was full of mistranslation. That was Daiuke. Even those who defend Kimura, even if it is not a mistranslation, it is a mistranslation. With this, I finally realized that there was nothing valuable in Kimura's writing. So now kimura has a new title. It is called "mistranslator."In the newspaper from this summer, critics of various names have changed, and even when writing things that have nothing to do with the heart translation that is cold to Kimura, the mistranslation problem, there are two sayings, "Apart from the mistranslation problem," or "I do not know whether the power of machigaku is known. "Kimura laughed a short while after being interrupted by a servant saying, 'Kefu is something to do with it.'
Maybe this translation makes more sense:
I can see the meaning of that. Once you become an author, you have to speak ill of him in the newspaper every morning. He swallowed it. In the Mainichi Newspapers, Tsukinomura, who had a quarter to say that he swallowed a living frog as a whole, was also criticized. I once did so many translations that I was given the title of translator. On the other hand, I can't create! The meaning of the five phrases was expressed either openly or by implication. He made a great deal of fiction, and afterwards he did not confess himself, but confessed that he had no self, so he was considered a playful literary art. Some of the comments were very detailed. A dialog of philosophical sectarianism might be described as a work without ethacification. If you write a crime in a realistic manner, it is a detective novel. In other words, none of them is valuable. However, I was saved by good translation. However, a brave critic came out, and Kimura's translation was full of mistranslations. It was a great reception. Even if it was a person who defended Kimura, it was a poor translation. This led to the conclusion that Kimura's writing was of no value at all. And now Kimura has a new title. That's the word "misprint." There are two things in the newspaper from this summer, such as "Apart from the problem of wrong translation" or "I don't know whether I have the power of masochist" even when the critics of various names switch and write things that have nothing to do with the heart translation that cools the wrong translator Kimura. "Something's wrong with me, too," Kimura interrupted his wife, and this time he let out a short laugh.
Hi Koppa, thanks for sharing your thorough notes! Here's a rough overview of the first two pages:
p. 430
Kimura's wife calls from the kitchen, asking him if he's going to the botanical garden today, and tells him it's better to go early while it's still cool. Kimura replies he's reading the newspaper, going through the reviews of his translations. He calls this "swallowing a frog" (see Jon's comment). The wife asks him what they wrote about him. The narrator explains that the term "swallowing a frog" comes from the French novelist Emile Zola.
p. 431
Kimura is criticized in the papers on a daily basis. Because he's done a lot of translation work he's received the predicate of "translator". Conversely, he's criticized for not producing anything original. The few original works he does produce are constantly misunderstood and mistakenly categorized. Lately, even his translation work has come under attack from a new critic on the scene, who claims it is full of mistake. As a result, he's stuck with a reputation of "bad translator" (translator who makes a lot of mistakes), a designation that other critics start to copy in their evaluation of his work, even when it doesn't concern a translation.
His wife asks what they wrote about him this time, to which he responds with laughter.
Hope this clarifies some things :) Hope you have fun on day two!
Thank you so much, yes, this really helps, because even if you can read it, to understand this still being at beginner level, is a different story. And like some others here it is hard to know what the author means. 'The swallowing a frog' now makes sense and it's an interesting reference. I look forward to day two and all the comments of the members here are very helpful, so thank you all.
I am based in America, so I can meet at anytime all day except 6:00-8:00pm. Eastern Time. Thanks!
Hi Deidra, thanks for confirming this :) Hope you're enjoying the story!
I live in Belgium, so there is no time difference, it was lovely to see you in the video.
Thanks so much, and thanks also for letting me know! I'll give a more thorough response to your previous comment tomorrow…