I made a word document especially for the kanji in the text. I thought it might be useful. The kanji wasn't too difficult, (though my knowledge is still limited), this was much easier than the previous challenge, two kanji's with the question mark I wasn't sure about. Does anybody know how I can upload the word file? That might read better?
Thank you for the compliment and yes it is time consuming, but I as also replied to 晴れ姉, see post below, being able to go through the next pages in a much quicker pace is so rewarding, so thank you for this experience.
Thanks! I gave up after the first page because I found looking up every third word very time consuming, but I think I can chime in with some alternate translations thanks to jsho
非常 can also mean very/extreme/etc
掘り出 was part of an expression 掘り出し物 with 物 written in hiragana. It means 'lucky find'
Also finally I'm not sure but I think in this case 難い could've been pronounced にくい, because it was after the masu stem of a verb if I remember correctly
You're correct on the 掘り出し物！Well done :) 難い here is actually read as かたい (or in this case, as it follows the ren'yokei of a verb, as ～がたい). You sometimes see it in set phrases as well, e.g. 想像に難くない (= it isn't difficult to imagine).
And I'm so sorry to hear you're giving up! You're doing so well! I know it's tough, but you can ask any questions you want here, we're all here to get you through it, so I'd encourage you to stick with it! Will you reconsider?
I'll definitely be haunting the discussion threads, but it's almost as if literary Japanese grammar seems to delight in my suffering, so I'll probably just read paragraphs/pages out of curiosity when I have time
I understand but you mean, looking up can be time consuming, but now glancing at the next page, it goes must faster because you know more words, so can skip more. To really understand the story, then I do need some more time and translation I do not even want to go there, but these first steps though tedious, are necessary, or so I feel. Please don't give up. The next page will be better, and you are not alone. Reading something entirely in Japanese, being a beginner myself can be hard, but it is rewarding afterwards to be able to go through the following pages much quicker.
One thing I noticed that might help if you choose to go through again:
柄ない - I think is actually しま柄 なども. しま柄 being a striped pattern, and なども is sort of like etcetera. So that chunk is about doing things like wearing a new kimono with a striped pattern.
The writer has an engaging style because it's informal, as if you're reading his thoughts. He speaks disparagingly about T's lifestyle but it also makes you want to read more because it's so frank. Though T and his wife live a relatively dissipated, meaningless life (and I regret T isn't faithful to her), I think it shows the reality of what the writer saw around him or experienced in his own life. Judging by the name 一人二役 I expect the main theme to be the pretense/hypocrisy of our lives (what we should do vs. what we actually do, or T's obsessive pursuit of pleasure though none of it satisfies him etc.)
My goal in reading Japanese literature is to appreciate the story, so I didn't approach the text like reading comprehension. I just read through the two pages as best I could, looking up as few words as possible...it sucks the life out of the story whenever I treat it like a grammar/vocabulary exercise.
Hi Ai, that's great, I'm so glad to hear you're enjoying the story. It's impressive that you don't have to look up so much and are able to sit back and take it all in. Curious to hear what you think of the rest of the story :) Cheers!
Hi Bunsuke, don't be impressed because my level is probably only upper intermediate. I just get really demotivated if I interrupt reading to look words up. I might do a proper word study at the end.
i think that's a great approach! i always used to make up my mind before reading a text whether or not i would look up words and grammar or force myself to keep reading no matter what, in order to avoid frustration :)
I'm a little confused by the exact sequence of events at the end of page 107 and the way the wife finds out about the mustache. Here's my poorly written understanding of the final lines.
In the bed, you see, they usually slept with the lights turned off, so it was pitch dark, right ? T finally let go of the mustache he was holding in his hand. Then, as expected, this weird sensation surprised his wife.
I don't understand why the wife is feeling anything just because he's letting go of the mustache. What's implied here or what am I misunderstanding ? Sex ?
Thanks again for this challenging and fun opportunity :)
Hi Jon, you're spot on. I don't think the story explicitly says they had intercourse, but if the bed is tiny, then his fake beard might have touched her face, or perhaps she touched his face with her hand. I think the point is that the wife notices something different. Her husband doesn't have a beard, but this guy next to her (T in disguise) does, and that surprises her and piques her interest.
I definitely had the same confusion as you. Personally, I just chalked it up to 'odd word choice' and translated it as 'revelation'?? But it's almost definitely wrong, if not entirely, then in nuance.
Prescript: tip for people who can't find English translations for some of the vocabulary: look it up in Japanese. You're pretty much guaranteed to find an explanation, even if it'll take longer to decode. (E.g. for those wondering what 箸豆 means, weblio gave the following: 異性とつぎつぎに関係を持つ者 [a man who sleeps around with the opposite sex])
There are going to be a lot of phrases I don't understand so I'm just going to put them here I guess:
一番目：これはという相手の見つかろうはずもないのだが
二番目：精力の過剰に困っているのでもなければ (I'd expect this to be in the conjunctive? Does the conditional act as a conjunctive archaically?)
三番目：遊戯もここまでくるとちょっとすごくなるね
四番目：自分のでない
五番目：信じきっている (why is this in the present tense? The whole scene is confusing to me, does she think him her husband or not?)
Okay I'm going to try to summarize what I think has happened in the first two pages in order to catch any major mistakes before they fester. I'll paraphrase any parts I understand confidently:
Nobody knows what people will do when they're bored. An acquaintance of mine, T, was an unemployed man who had some money and a beautiful wife but did not appreciate her, being the kind of man who who indulged in the arts and prostitution. The sleeping around makes his wife jealous, which he finds a strange pleasure and that he can't throw away. You wouldn't expect someone like T, who isn't satisfied with his wife, to try and find prostitutes, but that's boredom. He's neither troubled by his excessive libido, nor is he trying to find love. It's just boredom. Each different girl has a different charm. And he might even get a lucky find. That was generally how T played. Well this is an unbelievable story about the odd thing T began to do, none of his games come close to this. Everyone would surely feel odd if they peeked on their wife with another man. It's absolutely unbearable, but there's curiosity. The motive for his strange actions are probably a large part curiosity. But he pretended that this was what he needed to do to prevent his wife's jealousy. So, in one night, he dressed up in a full disguise, complete with a fake moustache. Thus, he wasn't himself, and he tucked a silver cigarette case engraved with nonsense initials into his sleeve, and walked back into his home casually. The wife believed that T had come back from somewhere late at night. Well, it's obvious, but she didn't notice his disguise. Not unreasonable, considering she was half asleep. T himself had put in a lot of care, using a striped kimono and other misleading things, like a fake moustache that he hid with his palm or a handkerchief until he entered the bed. In the end, T's strange plan was a success. Because it was habit to turn off the lamp and sleep in the bed, in the pitch black bed, he finally released his fake moustache. Obviously, the bizarre sensation (revelation?) Shocked his wife. "Oh..."
一番目: (because he had a beautiful wife,) one wouldn't expect him to look for such partners (the other women), but...
二番目：even if he wasn't troubled by a surplus of libido (I guess it's saying he does have a high libido but that's not the reason he messes around with other women)
三番目：it's a bit amazing that his games would come this far
四番目：not his (, but fake initials)
五番目：she came (to greet him at the door) believing it was her husband coming home late
I think your summary is correct, I don't really see any mistakes
Thank you so much, reading this and re-reading the Japanese now, makes much more sense now. That is the hardest thing for me, being able to follow the story in Japanese in the same way, I can nearly effortlessly follow the story in English. That why I can't yet comment on the story and still busy looking up kanji. What I think is wonderful here that everybody works at his or her level, and this is reflected in the posts, which are to me all so helpful. So thank you all.
I mostly did it to try and ascertain that I hadn't completely misconstrued some parts (the final scene had me extremely confused, but I'll trust Levi that the wife had just realised that it wasn't her husband when he uncovered his moustache?) But I'll admit that it actually helped.
I'm not sure if I'll do it everyday, but translating it into English forced me to really try and work out what the author was saying, instead of the nebulous 'maybe's that floated around just from reading it in Japanese.
I'm at a level where I can read more conversational Japanese usually without having to mentally translate into English, but due to the context-dependent nature of Japanese, I usually read more difficult texts like 一人二役 with preconceived expectations of what a sentence is trying to say—that's the only way I can read anything in any reasonable amount of time—but it often leads to confusion when the text doesn't match my expectation.
Translating it into English really forced me to question whether I had the correct interpretation, and made me consider every grammatical particle for all of its possible implications and anything it could change about my understanding of the sentence.
Actually doing so is what helped me figure out the last scene, as it forced me to pick the most likely option out of all of the contradicting ideas in my mind. And apparently, it was correct.
Good evening! In the text there are some words refering to women:
細君 - T's wife, right?
女房 - who does the word refer to?
宿の妻 - who does the word refer to?
Further, what do these sentences mean:
1. 実際にやられては耐たまらないが、ただふっとそんな好奇心の起ることがある。
2. それが又、Ｔには一寸ちょっと捨て難がたい、おつな楽たのしみでもあったのだ。
Generally the beginning of the text is difficult (to me). Later on, when the action is starting, the text is a little bit better understandable. And it looks promising :)
Haha, you're right, they all mean 'wife' and they all refer to T's wife.
As for the sentences:
1. If your wife actually does this to you, you'd be crushed, but sometimes one suddenly feels such a sense of curiosity. (or something along those lines)
2. Again, T took a strange kind of pleasure in this, a feeling he couldn't let go (as in: he was addicted to this pleasure).
Great to see you're sticking with this!!! You're doing great :)
Could this sentence imply that T has been looking for other woman too? Following this sentence, his wife will be jealous (if she finds out.)
いうまでもなく、女房はやくね。
As far as I understand, he is still yet to be caught from messing around with other women.
I believe that he is with other women/prostitutes from the red district, he is not satisfied with just his wife. Though, in the red district, none of the women will be perfect for him still, and that is boring.
どの女房に満足しないほどのTだから……
He isn’t troubled by excess libido and not looking for love, but is troubled by boredom; but in this random search of women, he can get lucky — this eases this boredom?
Second Page 107
It appears that T has curiosity/inquisitiveness surrounding his wife cheating with other men (only in speculation is it fine.)
いや、実際にやられてはたまらないが……
One night he goes out, head to toe, in a disguise (in which he goes to mess around, presumably). As he gets home, he takes precautions to not be caught; however, it seem that his fake beard/moustache will expose him later in the story as his wife notices it by the sensation nearing the end of the page.
Overall, this is the hardest reading I have done in my journey learning Japanese as this is more literary in terms of style, relative to what I like to read—of which would be light novels in romance; however, it was very enjoyable to read the first to pages. Definitely, I will be continuing to read this tomorrow.
From what I understand, the first page explains that, despite having a beautiful wife, he messes around with other women not out of a surplus of libido or a need for love, but simply out of boredom. This same boredom is what fuels his following actions starting in the second page.
As for the second page, from my understanding he doesn't disguise himself to mess around outside but to fool his wife into thinking it's not him but another man coming into their house when he comes back.
There are a few expressions I couldn't understand:
1 - 箸まめにあさり歩く
2 - いうまでもなく、女房はやく
3 - オツな楽しみ
4 - 夜ふかし
5 - 床にはいる - What does 床 refer to here?
Additionally, I'm not sure I understand the motivation for T's plan in page 107. From my understanding, the first paragraph says something like "mostly because any man would be curious to peep on their wife with another man, and also wanted to show his wife's jealously due to his depraved lifestyle". Is this correct?
Concerning your last question, correct! This is all that is revealed at this time...perhaps we'll learn more as we read on ;) As for the phrases, I'll respond to the answers of others below.
2 I understood to be "it goes without saying, that his wife was jealous". With kanji, it would look like this: 言うまでも無く、女房は焼くね
3 I took as "romantic(? Maybe euphemism for sexual?) Pleasure, assuming that オツ was katakana for 乙.
5 I didn't reach that part, but I'm guessing that it's referring to the とこ 'bed' meaning, and that the kanji 入る isn't used in favour of writing it in hiragana as はいる
You're correct about the meaning of 2! But the kanji here is 妬く instead of 焼く. It is also in the word 嫉妬 しっと (jealousy), which is basically a combination of the kanji for the verbs 嫉む そねむ and 妬む ねたむ.
乙な○○ means something like 'strange' or 'out of the ordinary', at least in this case.
Completely correct about 5 as well! See, you're doing so well! Please keep going you can do this!!!
箸まめ is probably the most complex word you'll find in the text. the はし here refers to the word 端女 はしため (the kanji 女 can be read as め), meaning 'a lowly woman' or 'a woman of ill reputation'. You still see this in the word はしたない ('improper' or 'vulgar'). Here the character 箸 is used not for its meaning ('chopsticks') but solely for the sound (はし). Using a different, less direct, kanji in this way sometimes helps mask the vulgarity of the word. まめ is an old derogatory term for female genitals. So as a whole, it means something like 'he went out going from woman to woman'. Difficult to capture it all in one translation, but hope this helps.
Okay, I'll keep going. I'm 7 hours ahead so I'll read the second page today I suppose. There was one sentence I read during the first page that I didn't have to look up anything for and I felt so proud of myself, so I suppose let's see if I can get another one in page 2.
Happy New Year! I hope your first few days of the new year are going well and you are staying safe and healthy.
I'm really happy that you chose to do a mystery novel this time around! Unfortunately, this read proved to be too challenging for me as I had to pick up a dictionary and search up a word almost every other sentence. I don't think I have a good understanding of what's being said/done in the text. However, I was able to pick a part some sentences and from what I can form it seems to be an introductory? Introducing a character named T?
I will try to continue forward with this reading project and see if the next few pages make a bit more sense.
Hi Kat, Happy New Year! I'm glad you like the story! It's ok if you're having trouble following the story. The struggle is half the fun, and although it feels pointless while you're doing it, I promise you'll see the benefits of the process down the road. So if you can, try to stick with it, and you can always post questions here along the way. We're all here to help each other out :)
Haha I chose it because it wasn't obvious. It's not the kind of thing you'll find in any regular textbook. And it's accessible for a text written almost a century ago. Fantastic that you're curious about the rest of the story :) I also like the word 首尾, somehow very visual and easy to remember! Looking forward to your comments tonight😄
Pages 106-107 Edogawa’s Ranpo’s Hitori Futayaku
人間 にんげん human being
何を始める なにをはじめる what, start to begin
知れる しれる to become known
知人 ちじん friend; acquaintance
男 おとこ、おっこ man; male; fellow
型 かた、がた model; type
無職 むしょく without an occupation
遊民 ゆうみん the unemployed
食う くう to eat (?)
困る こまる to be troubled
蓄音機 ちくおんき gramophone
映画 えいが movie
遊里 ゆうり red light district
回る まわる to turn
暮らす くらす to live; to get along
不幸 ふこう unhappiness
細君 さいくん one's wife
種類 しゅるい variety
宿 やど lodging
妻 つま wife
笑い事 わらいごとじゃないno laughing matter
女房 にょうぼう wife
満足 まんぞく satisfaction
箸 はし chopsticks
捨てる すてる to throw away, to desert
難い かたい difficult; hard
楽しみ たのしみ enjoyment
美人 びじん beautiful person (woman)
売女 ばいた prostitute
相手 あいて companion
見つかる みつかる to be found
精力 せいりょく energy
過剰 かじょう excess; over-
恋 こい romantic love ?
求める もとめる to wish for; to request
味 あじ flavor
非常な ひじょう emergency
掘り出 ほりだ digging?
意味合い いみあい implication
変 へん strange ?
実に じつに indeed
奇想天外 きそうてんがい fantastic idea; bizarre
遊戯 ゆうぎ game; play; sports
感じる かんじる to feel; to sense; to experience
以外 いがい with the exception of
間男 まおとこ married woman's secret lover
接する せつる contact
様子 ようす state
好奇心 こうきしん curiosity
起こる おこる to occur
奇行 きこう eccentricity
動機 どうき motive
相違 そうい difference
放蕩 ほうとう dissipation
に対する にたいする regarding
封ずる ふうずる to seal (letter); to prevent
手段だ しゅだん means, way measure
称す しょうす to take the name of
服装 ふくそう garments
手軽 てがる easy
変装 へんそう disguise
彫る ほる、える to carve
帰宅 きたく returning home
信じる しんじる to believe
当然 とうぜん natural
眼て めて eye
無理 むり unreasonable
用心 ようじん care
柄ない がらない no pattern
以前 いぜん ago; since
選ぶ えらぶ to choose
隠す かくす hide
奇妙 きみょう strange
計画 けいかく plan
成功 せいこう success; hit
消す けす to erase
電灯 でんとう electric light
習慣 しゅうかん habit
床の中 ゆかなか in the floor
離した はなした seperated
異様な感触 いようなかしょく strange feel
I made a word document especially for the kanji in the text. I thought it might be useful. The kanji wasn't too difficult, (though my knowledge is still limited), this was much easier than the previous challenge, two kanji's with the question mark I wasn't sure about. Does anybody know how I can upload the word file? That might read better?
Wow, this must have taken you quite a bit of time! Great work! Two small pointers: The て after 眼 should be removed; and 床の中 is read as とこのなか (in bed).
Thank you, for your small pointers, I had a feeling some might be wrong, but It's hard to figure this out be myself if I'm not sure. So thank you.
Thank you for the compliment and yes it is time consuming, but I as also replied to 晴れ姉, see post below, being able to go through the next pages in a much quicker pace is so rewarding, so thank you for this experience.
Thanks! I gave up after the first page because I found looking up every third word very time consuming, but I think I can chime in with some alternate translations thanks to jsho
非常 can also mean very/extreme/etc
掘り出 was part of an expression 掘り出し物 with 物 written in hiragana. It means 'lucky find'
Also finally I'm not sure but I think in this case 難い could've been pronounced にくい, because it was after the masu stem of a verb if I remember correctly
Good luck with the next 9 pages ;;
You're correct on the 掘り出し物！Well done :) 難い here is actually read as かたい (or in this case, as it follows the ren'yokei of a verb, as ～がたい). You sometimes see it in set phrases as well, e.g. 想像に難くない (= it isn't difficult to imagine).
And I'm so sorry to hear you're giving up! You're doing so well! I know it's tough, but you can ask any questions you want here, we're all here to get you through it, so I'd encourage you to stick with it! Will you reconsider?
I'll definitely be haunting the discussion threads, but it's almost as if literary Japanese grammar seems to delight in my suffering, so I'll probably just read paragraphs/pages out of curiosity when I have time
I understand but you mean, looking up can be time consuming, but now glancing at the next page, it goes must faster because you know more words, so can skip more. To really understand the story, then I do need some more time and translation I do not even want to go there, but these first steps though tedious, are necessary, or so I feel. Please don't give up. The next page will be better, and you are not alone. Reading something entirely in Japanese, being a beginner myself can be hard, but it is rewarding afterwards to be able to go through the following pages much quicker.
One thing I noticed that might help if you choose to go through again:
柄ない - I think is actually しま柄 なども. しま柄 being a striped pattern, and なども is sort of like etcetera. So that chunk is about doing things like wearing a new kimono with a striped pattern.
Thank you for pointing out the difference.
The writer has an engaging style because it's informal, as if you're reading his thoughts. He speaks disparagingly about T's lifestyle but it also makes you want to read more because it's so frank. Though T and his wife live a relatively dissipated, meaningless life (and I regret T isn't faithful to her), I think it shows the reality of what the writer saw around him or experienced in his own life. Judging by the name 一人二役 I expect the main theme to be the pretense/hypocrisy of our lives (what we should do vs. what we actually do, or T's obsessive pursuit of pleasure though none of it satisfies him etc.)
My goal in reading Japanese literature is to appreciate the story, so I didn't approach the text like reading comprehension. I just read through the two pages as best I could, looking up as few words as possible...it sucks the life out of the story whenever I treat it like a grammar/vocabulary exercise.
Hi Ai, that's great, I'm so glad to hear you're enjoying the story. It's impressive that you don't have to look up so much and are able to sit back and take it all in. Curious to hear what you think of the rest of the story :) Cheers!
Hi Bunsuke, don't be impressed because my level is probably only upper intermediate. I just get really demotivated if I interrupt reading to look words up. I might do a proper word study at the end.
i think that's a great approach! i always used to make up my mind before reading a text whether or not i would look up words and grammar or force myself to keep reading no matter what, in order to avoid frustration :)
I'm a little confused by the exact sequence of events at the end of page 107 and the way the wife finds out about the mustache. Here's my poorly written understanding of the final lines.
床の中でね、彼らは電灯を消して寝る習慣だったから、真っ暗な床の中でね、Tはやっとヒゲを抑えていた手を離した。で、つまり、当然だね、その異様な感触が細君を驚かせた。
In the bed, you see, they usually slept with the lights turned off, so it was pitch dark, right ? T finally let go of the mustache he was holding in his hand. Then, as expected, this weird sensation surprised his wife.
I don't understand why the wife is feeling anything just because he's letting go of the mustache. What's implied here or what am I misunderstanding ? Sex ?
Thanks again for this challenging and fun opportunity :)
Hi Jon, you're spot on. I don't think the story explicitly says they had intercourse, but if the bed is tiny, then his fake beard might have touched her face, or perhaps she touched his face with her hand. I think the point is that the wife notices something different. Her husband doesn't have a beard, but this guy next to her (T in disguise) does, and that surprises her and piques her interest.
I definitely had the same confusion as you. Personally, I just chalked it up to 'odd word choice' and translated it as 'revelation'?? But it's almost definitely wrong, if not entirely, then in nuance.
Prescript: tip for people who can't find English translations for some of the vocabulary: look it up in Japanese. You're pretty much guaranteed to find an explanation, even if it'll take longer to decode. (E.g. for those wondering what 箸豆 means, weblio gave the following: 異性とつぎつぎに関係を持つ者 [a man who sleeps around with the opposite sex])
There are going to be a lot of phrases I don't understand so I'm just going to put them here I guess:
一番目：これはという相手の見つかろうはずもないのだが
二番目：精力の過剰に困っているのでもなければ (I'd expect this to be in the conjunctive? Does the conditional act as a conjunctive archaically?)
三番目：遊戯もここまでくるとちょっとすごくなるね
四番目：自分のでない
五番目：信じきっている (why is this in the present tense? The whole scene is confusing to me, does she think him her husband or not?)
Okay I'm going to try to summarize what I think has happened in the first two pages in order to catch any major mistakes before they fester. I'll paraphrase any parts I understand confidently:
Nobody knows what people will do when they're bored. An acquaintance of mine, T, was an unemployed man who had some money and a beautiful wife but did not appreciate her, being the kind of man who who indulged in the arts and prostitution. The sleeping around makes his wife jealous, which he finds a strange pleasure and that he can't throw away. You wouldn't expect someone like T, who isn't satisfied with his wife, to try and find prostitutes, but that's boredom. He's neither troubled by his excessive libido, nor is he trying to find love. It's just boredom. Each different girl has a different charm. And he might even get a lucky find. That was generally how T played. Well this is an unbelievable story about the odd thing T began to do, none of his games come close to this. Everyone would surely feel odd if they peeked on their wife with another man. It's absolutely unbearable, but there's curiosity. The motive for his strange actions are probably a large part curiosity. But he pretended that this was what he needed to do to prevent his wife's jealousy. So, in one night, he dressed up in a full disguise, complete with a fake moustache. Thus, he wasn't himself, and he tucked a silver cigarette case engraved with nonsense initials into his sleeve, and walked back into his home casually. The wife believed that T had come back from somewhere late at night. Well, it's obvious, but she didn't notice his disguise. Not unreasonable, considering she was half asleep. T himself had put in a lot of care, using a striped kimono and other misleading things, like a fake moustache that he hid with his palm or a handkerchief until he entered the bed. In the end, T's strange plan was a success. Because it was habit to turn off the lamp and sleep in the bed, in the pitch black bed, he finally released his fake moustache. Obviously, the bizarre sensation (revelation?) Shocked his wife. "Oh..."
一番目: (because he had a beautiful wife,) one wouldn't expect him to look for such partners (the other women), but...
二番目：even if he wasn't troubled by a surplus of libido (I guess it's saying he does have a high libido but that's not the reason he messes around with other women)
三番目：it's a bit amazing that his games would come this far
四番目：not his (, but fake initials)
五番目：she came (to greet him at the door) believing it was her husband coming home late
I think your summary is correct, I don't really see any mistakes
Thank you so much, reading this and re-reading the Japanese now, makes much more sense now. That is the hardest thing for me, being able to follow the story in Japanese in the same way, I can nearly effortlessly follow the story in English. That why I can't yet comment on the story and still busy looking up kanji. What I think is wonderful here that everybody works at his or her level, and this is reflected in the posts, which are to me all so helpful. So thank you all.
I mostly did it to try and ascertain that I hadn't completely misconstrued some parts (the final scene had me extremely confused, but I'll trust Levi that the wife had just realised that it wasn't her husband when he uncovered his moustache?) But I'll admit that it actually helped.
I'm not sure if I'll do it everyday, but translating it into English forced me to really try and work out what the author was saying, instead of the nebulous 'maybe's that floated around just from reading it in Japanese.
I'm at a level where I can read more conversational Japanese usually without having to mentally translate into English, but due to the context-dependent nature of Japanese, I usually read more difficult texts like 一人二役 with preconceived expectations of what a sentence is trying to say—that's the only way I can read anything in any reasonable amount of time—but it often leads to confusion when the text doesn't match my expectation.
Translating it into English really forced me to question whether I had the correct interpretation, and made me consider every grammatical particle for all of its possible implications and anything it could change about my understanding of the sentence.
Actually doing so is what helped me figure out the last scene, as it forced me to pick the most likely option out of all of the contradicting ideas in my mind. And apparently, it was correct.
Good evening! In the text there are some words refering to women:
細君 - T's wife, right?
女房 - who does the word refer to?
宿の妻 - who does the word refer to?
Further, what do these sentences mean:
1. 実際にやられては耐たまらないが、ただふっとそんな好奇心の起ることがある。
2. それが又、Ｔには一寸ちょっと捨て難がたい、おつな楽たのしみでもあったのだ。
Generally the beginning of the text is difficult (to me). Later on, when the action is starting, the text is a little bit better understandable. And it looks promising :)
regards,
Dana
Hi Dana, glad you've decided to join the project!
Haha, you're right, they all mean 'wife' and they all refer to T's wife.
As for the sentences:
1. If your wife actually does this to you, you'd be crushed, but sometimes one suddenly feels such a sense of curiosity. (or something along those lines)
2. Again, T took a strange kind of pleasure in this, a feeling he couldn't let go (as in: he was addicted to this pleasure).
Great to see you're sticking with this!!! You're doing great :)
I think 2 meant something like "it was also romantic (/sexual?) pleasure, and difficult for T to throw away"?
Exactly!
First Page 106
あちらこちら、箸まめにあさり歩く。
Could this sentence imply that T has been looking for other woman too? Following this sentence, his wife will be jealous (if she finds out.)
いうまでもなく、女房はやくね。
As far as I understand, he is still yet to be caught from messing around with other women.
I believe that he is with other women/prostitutes from the red district, he is not satisfied with just his wife. Though, in the red district, none of the women will be perfect for him still, and that is boring.
どの女房に満足しないほどのTだから……
He isn’t troubled by excess libido and not looking for love, but is troubled by boredom; but in this random search of women, he can get lucky — this eases this boredom?
Second Page 107
It appears that T has curiosity/inquisitiveness surrounding his wife cheating with other men (only in speculation is it fine.)
いや、実際にやられてはたまらないが……
One night he goes out, head to toe, in a disguise (in which he goes to mess around, presumably). As he gets home, he takes precautions to not be caught; however, it seem that his fake beard/moustache will expose him later in the story as his wife notices it by the sensation nearing the end of the page.
Overall, this is the hardest reading I have done in my journey learning Japanese as this is more literary in terms of style, relative to what I like to read—of which would be light novels in romance; however, it was very enjoyable to read the first to pages. Definitely, I will be continuing to read this tomorrow.
excellent! you're doing great and seem to have a good grasp of what's going on! you're perhaps further ahead in your studies than you thought😎
From what I understand, the first page explains that, despite having a beautiful wife, he messes around with other women not out of a surplus of libido or a need for love, but simply out of boredom. This same boredom is what fuels his following actions starting in the second page.
As for the second page, from my understanding he doesn't disguise himself to mess around outside but to fool his wife into thinking it's not him but another man coming into their house when he comes back.
There are a few expressions I couldn't understand:
1 - 箸まめにあさり歩く
2 - いうまでもなく、女房はやく
3 - オツな楽しみ
4 - 夜ふかし
5 - 床にはいる - What does 床 refer to here?
Additionally, I'm not sure I understand the motivation for T's plan in page 107. From my understanding, the first paragraph says something like "mostly because any man would be curious to peep on their wife with another man, and also wanted to show his wife's jealously due to his depraved lifestyle". Is this correct?
Concerning your last question, correct! This is all that is revealed at this time...perhaps we'll learn more as we read on ;) As for the phrases, I'll respond to the answers of others below.
4 - staying up late
5 - 床 ゆか would mean ground, floor—specifically meaning indoor floor, rather than outside floor (dirt ground and the like 地 ち)
4 is completely correct, well done! As for 5, it is read as とこ here, meaning 'bed'. But you're correct that it means floor when read as ゆか.
2 I understood to be "it goes without saying, that his wife was jealous". With kanji, it would look like this: 言うまでも無く、女房は焼くね
3 I took as "romantic(? Maybe euphemism for sexual?) Pleasure, assuming that オツ was katakana for 乙.
5 I didn't reach that part, but I'm guessing that it's referring to the とこ 'bed' meaning, and that the kanji 入る isn't used in favour of writing it in hiragana as はいる
You're correct about the meaning of 2! But the kanji here is 妬く instead of 焼く. It is also in the word 嫉妬 しっと (jealousy), which is basically a combination of the kanji for the verbs 嫉む そねむ and 妬む ねたむ.
乙な○○ means something like 'strange' or 'out of the ordinary', at least in this case.
Completely correct about 5 as well! See, you're doing so well! Please keep going you can do this!!!
And what's about sentence no 1? Does it mean T was walking around with chopsticks? Why? 食うには困らないーso he didnt care for eating? Did he?
Regards, Dana
perhaps 'he would go out hunting for women of ill repute' would be better as a translation, just came to me in the shower :D
oh yes sorry I overlooked this one!
箸まめ is probably the most complex word you'll find in the text. the はし here refers to the word 端女 はしため (the kanji 女 can be read as め), meaning 'a lowly woman' or 'a woman of ill reputation'. You still see this in the word はしたない ('improper' or 'vulgar'). Here the character 箸 is used not for its meaning ('chopsticks') but solely for the sound (はし). Using a different, less direct, kanji in this way sometimes helps mask the vulgarity of the word. まめ is an old derogatory term for female genitals. So as a whole, it means something like 'he went out going from woman to woman'. Difficult to capture it all in one translation, but hope this helps.
食うに困らない just means he has enough money to eat.
I was also confused with this sentence, so thanks for asking and for making it clear Bunsuke.
Okay, I'll keep going. I'm 7 hours ahead so I'll read the second page today I suppose. There was one sentence I read during the first page that I didn't have to look up anything for and I felt so proud of myself, so I suppose let's see if I can get another one in page 2.
YES!!!!! great! if you feel like it's to much just post it here. I'll help. we can always do a zoom call and read together
Congratulations, feels good if you can read without looking up. Keep it up.
Hello Bunsuke-san,
Happy New Year! I hope your first few days of the new year are going well and you are staying safe and healthy.
I'm really happy that you chose to do a mystery novel this time around! Unfortunately, this read proved to be too challenging for me as I had to pick up a dictionary and search up a word almost every other sentence. I don't think I have a good understanding of what's being said/done in the text. However, I was able to pick a part some sentences and from what I can form it seems to be an introductory? Introducing a character named T?
I will try to continue forward with this reading project and see if the next few pages make a bit more sense.
Have a nice evening,
Kat.
Hi Kat, Happy New Year! I'm glad you like the story! It's ok if you're having trouble following the story. The struggle is half the fun, and although it feels pointless while you're doing it, I promise you'll see the benefits of the process down the road. So if you can, try to stick with it, and you can always post questions here along the way. We're all here to help each other out :)
Why did you choose this story? Haha I am confused : D
It sounds like NTR I am so sorry for using this word, but I reallly don't understand the main character.
But I am so interested what happens next. Maybe will read more pages today.
The hardest part for me was 箸はしまめにあさり歩く.
Thank you so much for explaining it!
Also after reading 2 pages I tried to listen 朗読. It really helps to understand better and feel the mood of the story.
I liked sentense この奇妙な計画はまんまと首尾よく成功したんだ。
Will try to remember it.
Haha I chose it because it wasn't obvious. It's not the kind of thing you'll find in any regular textbook. And it's accessible for a text written almost a century ago. Fantastic that you're curious about the rest of the story :) I also like the word 首尾, somehow very visual and easy to remember! Looking forward to your comments tonight😄