43 Comments
Aug 1, 2021Liked by Bunsuke

I read the last half of page 382 on the last day of this project. I definitely noticed changes from the first half page I read; my eyes are more naturally moving up and down the page, and I can spot parts of speech from more of a distance now. I’m also looking up way less, which means my pace is faster too. I kept noticing things I’d already asked about (and kindly had answered!) before :)

Regarding reading aids, I've been using an offline phone dictionary (lacks set phrases and how common meanings are, but has handwriting input) and jisho.org (has more set phrases and easier interface) - because I don't have access to a physical one (or so I say - even if I did, it would probably be an uphill battle trying to make me use it! Seems fun to try at some point but also painful) I haven't touched g*ogle tr*nslate etc since it's been drilled into me at school - it always makes you feel more confident than you really are.

Regarding what I noticed about reading, to take one example, I kept thinking “this kanji means character too?!” If it was English though, if an author used the same word incessantly in the same paragraph/page, rather than thinking “yay, I know this word!” it would be dull. I also noticed there are not as many different types of punctuation used to separate clauses than you might find on the page in English - makes sense since this is often covered by particles. The fact the clauses are so long with no separation between subclauses is just something to get used to haha… (disclaimer: reading further/ different authors may change my views.)

Regarding this particular last half of p382, I won’t say my question-to-page ratio decreased for good (probably a serendipitous mix of content and context), but I only noted down three things I wasn’t too sure on, which I mostly resolved. I did wonder about some of the nuances of the different synonyms of “character”, but I guess they’re mostly there to avoid repetition. The last one that might be worth sharing is:

1. 何ヵ月: I misread that small カ as a 々at first. A bit of searching revealed it came from 個 or 箇, which is a generic counter for things. This is also where 个 came from, which is the generic counter in Simplified Chinese! ヵ or ヶ can both be used. (The remaining thing I’m wondering is how to type it? It’s not coming up for nankagetsu) nevermind, I found this too! IME input with a lowercase L (l-) or x- prefix like lka or xka ヵゕ work for all small kana!

Before this project I was enjoying Bunsuke’s daily snippets but still felt intimidated by the concept of reading longer passages; there were simply too many words. I still think this, but in this project I didn’t have to get through them all on my own, so I'm super appreciative of this opportunity. Not having visual or audio cues is tough but I love that I can finally interact with just the language itself. Where I read up to became quite a fitting ending that I felt could apply to my newly obtained reading experience as well - それは彼女がこれまでに見たことのない世界で繰り広げられる出来事だった。それは彼女にとってまったく新し世界だった! Of course I hope it goes better for me than for Osawa…

I replied to the previous day’s comments in previous threads, I hope that’s okay! Sorry, I sometimes feel selfish for asking so many questions - I’ve not had close contact with so many interested and knowledgeable people before so I’m carpe diem-ing this without reserve. I’m glad I did ask though! I was never one to ask so many questions in class, I’m glad I could connect with others like this and learn so many valuable and intriguing things. Thank you, everyone!

To Bunsuke in particular: I would be interested in hearing if your linguistics people have anything to say about my (sometimes superficial) etymological questions! I’m also curious about how I’ll find the rest of the story. Maybe I should keep reading… or maybe switch in Soseki for a bit?

Also, there are some modern Japanese novels I want to read (something like Sawamura Mikage) but I have no idea whether I should work towards attempting this now or later. Maybe I can try a few paragraphs of both to taste test first. In your opinion, would you suggest tackling something modern before or after something like Kokoro? I do feel like a reading habit is setting in hehe

(disclaimer - Sawamura-san’s Twitter is insanely interesting but I’ve never read any works, so I can’t say how I’ll feel about it, I’m just curious xD a short story might be a more thoughtful choice but there aren't any that I'm burning to read right now, whereas I feel very inclined towards the two authors I mentioned before. If anyone has any short story recs I'd love to hear them!)

tl;dr: Super valuable experience! Thank you to Bunsuke and this community for all your generous contributions! I recommend anyone with an interest in this no matter how unprepared they feel to join in next time :D

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Jul 31, 2021Liked by Bunsuke

So due to some businesses, I got busy and couldn't practice the last two days, so thanks to that I have some lost time to compensate.

Finished reading another page this afternoon, still felt kinda stumped because of the amount of kanji I still didn't know. Still tried the same method from last time, but I do fear that I may forget what I have written down at some point, especially in the case of the less frequently-used words; maybe rereading it all over from the beginning once I'm done may help with this(?).

On the flip side, since I felt like I got more frustrated than usual with this, I tried playing a game for a change of practice, and surprisingly, I was able to understand about 70% of the text in the two hours without needing to consult anything at all! That really got my hopes up after we went through this week, I was even able to recognize some kanjis that caused me trouble in the text before ^^

This project may be over in the sense of posts here, but I will continue reading it in the next days until it's done. If I happen to have some question I can't figure out, I'll probably come back to this post to ask, or something.

I'll take this last bit to thank you, Bunsuke, for this opportunity that you offered, even though it might not seem like much, just being able to read and have someone to report and get cheered on helped me get over my hesitation to get my hands dirty with difficult texts. Just having you giving support in all occasions and everyone else also interacting made it all so worth it.

And Harry was the MVP for recommending this in the first place XD

But hey, it's not like I'm gonna die tonight or something, so my bad for sounding a little dramatic, but it is what it is. Looking forward for the next project we'll be having ;)

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Aug 4, 2021Liked by Bunsuke

Finally finished. I loved how narrator became more emotionless as the story goes on. He then described it perfectly by saying あらゆる色を吸い取られてしまった. It was not like he doesn't care what 大沢 thinks about what but more like waves of emotions washed up so strongly that nothing is left in his mind anymore. I guess that's why he wanted to drink. 青木 deserved what he saw because he himself realized that he doesn't know 深み let alone win against. I guess it's a happy end(or may be bad end) for both people because they knew there are things in life they can't fight against. Kinda got dramatic but whatever.

Thanks for this project. I loved it. If you are gonna do something like this again, next time for sure I am gonna finish it on time.

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Aug 2, 2021Liked by Bunsuke

It took me an extra day, but I 凌いだ through! Thanks to this initiative I finally made a japanese account to get my hands on my first japanese e-books. And a kind of method to make the most of the reading, even if certainly not the fastest.

I know I'd read this story long ago in english. I remembered 2 or 3 things. And the chill at the end feels familiar too, let me check [...]

Yup, the narrator is never quoted ditectly, i.e. 「」, and just sets up the scene and asks or gives short answers. The dull sky, the airport operations in stand by, and all the stranded passengers.

Not even at the end, after the sombre conclusion by 大沢 the narrator shows any empathy, and replies with a short 飲みましょう. I love how the scene goes hand in hand w/ the story, and how it feels like 大沢 is poking a finger up to the reader through the screen of the narrator. And how the themes are a call back to recent history, by a simple high school story.

I'd love it if this became a regular, maybe monthly feature. I had to give up twitter for a week, but it was やりがいと思います。

Thanks Bunsuke!

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Aug 1, 2021Liked by Bunsuke

I just finished reading the story this morning, and like the others, I’m really glad I stuck with it. At first, I fell behind and wasn’t sure I’d catch up. I have 9 pages of vocabulary words from reading, and I’m pretty sure I’ll have to go back many times to remember them. But more than anything, I feel transformed. Somehow I’m a different version of me, the aspiring Japanese reader. My eyes scan the vertical text differently, I get the gist of things a bit differently, and I feel the cadence of the words in my head differently than I did a few days ago. I suspect Bunsuke and Harry recommended this to us in part of this effect. I’m grateful that I could sense the drama of the story and grasp its depth a little more than I thought I could when I started. I think a few more reads through will help me. But I also feel like reading this operates at different levels at different times, and that I don’t have to absorb all of the improvements at once in order to benefit from the attempt.

I can tell there are many grammatical constructs I probably glossed over and guessed at from context, but this too feels like something worthwhile. As I read again, I expect I’ll notice more and hopefully learn from it too.

Thanks Bunsuke and Harry for this transformative project. I hope we might try more again sometime.

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Aug 1, 2021Liked by Bunsuke

So I just finished reading! I'm glad I stuck with it.

I felt like I missed a lot. The story itself was easy to understand (guy meets bad person, spreads rumours and makes his life hard) but that's about 5% of the content of the work. I decided to read the English version afterwards, and I could actually feel a lot of weight in how he phrases the descriptions of his emotions and thoughts. In Japanese, sometimes I understood those, but I wasn't moved at all by it.

One of my main takeaways from this experience is that, yes, I *can* read literature (I usually only read manga) but for the time being, it's better if it's a story-centric work. Actions are much easier to follow and understand than thoughts. That's why I felt like I could understand about all of キノの旅 but almost nothing of 沈黙.

Thanks to Bunsuke for organising this! I had fun this week ^^

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Jul 31, 2021Liked by Bunsuke

Also, I wondered if there was any meaningful difference between 哀れむ and 憐れむ (the latter used by the author when mentioning "pity" for Aoki).

Lastly, there are two words I couldn't figure out :

否心 (page 399), 7th column from the right.

and

熻*動 (page 400, 5th column from the left). * = This is not even the actual kanji in the textbut something close I found in Chinese with the same radical...

Thank you so much for this very enjoyable read ! Here's to many more !

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Aug 5, 2021Liked by Bunsuke

I too finished yesterday. Wonderful wonderful story. For me it was somehow an enormous symbolic representation of the perpetual conflict of the Self and the World, the latter being 青木 and the former being 大沢. Once again that distinctive theme of Japanese literature in general. There is an Oscar Wilde quote which I think can also shed light thematically:

"To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all"

Now to the actual grammar questions:

p. 396:

僕は青木の言うことをそのまま鵜呑みにしたょうな連中を相手に, そんな言い訳なんかしたくありませんでした

I´m curious about how 相手 actually works grammatically in this sentence. Does it maintain its noun status, or is it close to something like 対して?

p. 398:

どれだけ他人の目を引こうと, 表面で勝ち誇ろうと, そこには何もありません.

What´s the exact nuance of this "so-called volitional form" (I don´t like calling it like that but I´ll do it for convenience) with と? It has a special feeling in reading, something resembling the narrator wanting momentarily to speak from the other person´s perspective. However, that contradicts many things in Japanese grammar. I know what happens when する is attached, but not when it´s on its own.

Many thanks again Bunsuke for the project!! And in advance regarding these questions!

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Aug 3, 2021Liked by Bunsuke

Hi Bunsuke!

I haven´t finished the story yet, but I´ve encountered myself with the first point in which I need help to continue, because it´s blocking a big part of comprehension!

It´s the sentence in p. 397

そしてもしある朝僕が青木と同じ電車に乗り合わせなかったなら、僕は押しつぶされていたかもしれません

It´s not a question of grammar but of actual context and vocabulary. That 押しつぶす is driving me crazy, because I don´t know if it´s being used in a physical or abstract way, and I don´t get why he is saying that "If chance had made that Aoki and I didn´t conmute one morning on the same train, I would have surely been squashed (?) What would have happened with Aoki not being there?

Many thanks in advance!

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Aug 3, 2021Liked by Bunsuke

Hi Bunsuke! Thanks for the whole project! I finished reading slowly yesterday and today I read through the whole thing again - much smoother the second time - so I could actually somewhat understand everything together instead of a few pages/day. Today was pretty hard though, it still takes a lot of concentration to read this much.

I felt like I could understand most things, occasionally looking at notes for new words. I definitely feel as thought I've absorbed some new words as well - just from reading them multiple times. (such as 沈黙, 耐える, 頬...) It almost made me feel like I'm at the point where switching to picking up new vocab just from reading will be more efficient than specifically finding new words/sentences and putting them in SRS.

At the very end of the story, (no spoilers), as oosawa was talking about his dream, I thought he was talking about a melting duck [そして沈黙の中で何もかもがどろどろに溶けていくんです]. It was only after looking it up I found that 何もかも was in fact a phrase. So no melting ducks :/

A great experience, I look forward to doing this again if you decide to do another one :D

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Aug 2, 2021Liked by Bunsuke

Hi everyone!!

Wow, this week has been a lot of fun! I'm overjoyed that I was able to read my 1st long text with all of you :) I look forward to reading more Japanese novels, maybe I'll gather the courage to read 1Q84 someday (it's 928 pages......!!) Although I still have a ways to go, this project has given a lot more confidence in my reading comprehension ability.

I can't thank you enough Bunsuke! Looking forward to learning more with you all!

Evelyn

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Aug 1, 2021Liked by Bunsuke

Thank you Bunsuke for hosting this Immersion reading. I myself usually very lazy learner and using anki daily(sometimes missed) and that it is. Now this short reading really make me realized how much more effort needed to acquire Japanese proficiency.

Lurker.

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Jul 31, 2021Liked by Bunsuke

I noticed that Murakami chose to write 格好 as 恰好 at some point and I wondered if there was any nuance I'm not getting, besides 恰好 being obviously fancier because 恰 is not a 常用漢字 ;)

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Jul 31, 2021Liked by Bunsuke

Hello, Bunsuke and everyone who is participating in this immersion reading project!

I finished reading the story and I can say that it was both fun and immensely valuable. Now I definitely feel more confident in my reading. However, I have some thoughts that bother me.

You see, I tried not to look up words too much, because I knew it would drain my energy too quickly and I wouldn’t be able to keep up with the pace. As a result of this strategy, upon reaching the end I understood ~70% of the story. I perfectly understood the main story itself, the motivation of characters and everything else what I think was important. I skipped the parts with the descriptions of airport scenery etc. and I’m absolutely fine with it.

The thing is, these descriptions of airport scenery that I skipped contained a lot of kanjis. I am an «RTK-graduate» and thanks to Heisig’s method I was freed from many kanji-concerning anxieties, i.e. I was quite confident. Until now.

The method turned out not to be ideal: I usually don’t have any problems with frequently used kanjis, but there is almost no chance of recalling those encountered only in RTK itself.

That is, if I see something like 敏感, I will recognise 感 instantly, but it won’t work with 敏, even though I made a story for it, wrote it down etc. when I was studying the RTK.

And I’ve also realised that I am unable to write anything without checking the dictionary. I remember the words, but I can’t remember how to write these words with kanjis (even the frequent ones like 理解 or 意味).

So can you please share your thoughts on this problem. What in your opinion would be the best strategy here?

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